Exploring Intentional Living and Economic Freedom

Join host Emily Bron in this inspiring episode of Age of Reinvention, where we dive into the world of eco-living and intentional communities. Our special guest, Tatiana Bugrova, shares her journey from the IT sector to spearheading the Montelibero community in Montenegro. Discover how Montelibero promotes self-sufficiency, embraces technology, and connects like-minded individuals. Learn about their decentralized finance model, permaculture projects, barefoot shoes, and more. Whether you’re thinking of relocating or simply curious about sustainable living, this conversation is packed with insights and inspiration for everyone.

TIMESTAMPS:
00:33 Origins and Early Discussions
01:27 Welcome to Age of Reinvention
03:16 Tatiana Butanka’s Journey
04:44 Building the Montelibero Community
07:59 Montelibero’s Vision and Success
13:33 Government Relations and Support
19:36 Community Tools and Participation
30:57 Demographics and Inclusivity
34:13 Living in Montenegro
38:00 Healthcare and Language in Montenegro

Click here to listen to Part II of the podcast episode

Click here to watch Part II of the interview

Emily Bron: Welcome dear listeners to another episode of Age of Reinvention, where we explore the compelling realms of eco living and power of intentional communities. I am your host, Emily Bron, and today we are embarking on a journey of innovation and self discovery with a special guest, Tatyana Butanka. Join us from the breathtaking landscapes of Montenegro.

She’s not only an IT sector powerhouse with fascinating life story, but also a passionate activist and visionary in decentralized finance. Tatiana is pioneering and presenting today the Montelibera community to the world. Championing self sufficiency and the harmonious blending of technology and community building with the natural world.

So fasten your seatbelt and get comfortable because we are about to dive deep into the currents of change with Tatiana. We will discuss everything from building a resilient community abroad to the joy of crafting barefoot shoes and embracing the winds of change, quite literally.

, welcome to the Age of Reinvention, and it’s my absolute pleasure to have you with us today.

And looking at your life, even I don’t know a lot, I believe that even in your young age, you rediscovered yourself many times already. You have reinvented yourself this way with a master’s degree in history, your career took a fascinating turn into IT, later into sales and marketing, which led, I believe, to the leadership role in the libertarian Montalibera community in Montenegro.

What sparked this transition? And how have you merged your insights, personal insights with knowledge of history with world of technology? and current leadership participation in building and developing libertarian intentional community.

Tatyana Butanka: Oh, wow. You’ve done a big introduction for me. Thank you very much.

Understanding the history , looking at what’s going on in the world working, obviously. Coming from Russia working in the Western country for quite some time. I resided in the United Kingdom and understanding the major problems that are happening in the world.

I, I feel like I had to be part of this kind of freedom movement, political, economical freedom movement, and Montelibro found me, or I found Montelibro, we found each other, and it just created this combination of the energy that made both of us complete.

But again, I we don’t really have leaders in Montelibro community. Our decentralized finance without a center kind of community the main basis in Montelibro, but we are voluntarists, we are libertarians, and we only, I would you could probably only use the word leaders, Only as somebody who is a little bit more active in the community, maybe.

Emily Bron: Absolutely. There is my sense, because I believe, and I don’t know a lot about your communities, but anyway, there’s certain temperamental features, that make some people more visible, I would say. Everyone can do their work, but some people represent community as you represented today. in my studio, correct?

And I, so now I understand that community actually existed, or idea about community before you joined it. You were not one of the kind of fathers and mothers of the community. Who gets this idea first?

Tatyana Butanka: Yeah, the idea actually, it started from online chats of libertarians and uh, Mostly IT people um, who were into anarchism and some of them were into anarchism as well.

And they were discussing, okay, what are the measures we could take? Where could we start such a community? They were Russian speaking people, some of them from Ukraine, some of them from Russia, and they were just basically looking for, okay, shall we? Shall we already find that physical place that would connect us where we can start implementing the ideas and see how it could work.

There was lots of seasteading discussion before Montenegro established near the port of Bar in Montenegro. And it is still, I would say the seasteading idea is because you never know what’s happening with the governments. And in that sense, Montelibro is ready to go.

Seasteading, I guess if needed, but it’s not something we are doing at the moment. We are quite successful being on inland, which is nice. But yeah, this is basically started by a bunch of people who are just looking for an opportunity to make it all happen, discussing a lot, how it could have potentially looked, discussing a lot about free state project, which is one of the biggest in the world.

And a great example of libertarians can organize themselves and get together. And make a difference. And yeah, so that was basically the syner synergy of those few parts of the puzzle.

Emily Bron: I fully support your idea. I managed to live in Soviet Union. I left the country, which does not exist anymore.

More than 40 years ago, I lived in different countries, and I can tell you being even in different age group. I was sometimes horrified by what’s going on in the world and living in Canada and observing the news from UK. from many European, Western European countries United States. So I get to similar conclusion, but, I was not libertarian in a sense.

I didn’t think, I was tired of all isms. But the changes which started to appear to me, prompt me to be more active, but in my own way, by following, looking for connections with people, providing kind of education, and even this podcast, I’m trying to bring awareness of people about different projects and for some of followers who might listen and actually North America, not aware even about what is the Montenegro, I need to put some Tatiana today representing Monte Libera project in Montenegro.

It’s a small country in the south, central south part of Europe. And I need to provide some information about Monte Libera. It’s a project to build a free society in Europe. now based on libertarian principles of non aggression and self ownership starting from Montenegro country. By the way, it’s a serious assertion and Monte Libera project is open to like minded people ready to become pioneers and implement political and economic ideas that cannot be realized elsewhere.

We People from different countries with a wide range of skills and abilities have united and invited you to build the country of your dreams together. Montenegro is the best option for starting our experiment. And I can read a lot and telling the truth, I was very impressed reading on your website.

First of all about your multi layered, I would say scientific and cultural approach in selecting Montenegro as ideal country for your community launch and future development. And I fully support all the Points you are Included because when I was thinking even before I knew about Website, where would I launch a new country other than liberland with my knowledge of geography I thought that montenegro would have been a good choice and you just clarified all you know, very Beautifully I also support the simplicity in clarity stipulated in your monte libera movement and i’m again speaking about your website And the declaration of participation and I believe it should and it would attract many like minded people.

I like how I How your, I would say even company, now it looks like company, not just project. How your company is organized and structured, at least from the website perspective. And how clearly you explain to each other MTL funds and tasks. And even I was impressed by Monte Libera Court and even Monte Libera Activities Calendar because it’s not just words on the website.

I feel living and breathing community. of people and even with children activity, I understand that it’s already multi generational community. And I believe this clarity, it’s one of the cornerstones of your current success. And when I’m speaking about success, I would like to outline that I participated online recently in November.

In a life event yearly event of liberty in our lifetime movement where Tatiana received the prize, the first prize, and there were many projects presented at this event, and Tatiana and Monte Libera actually received it. Very deserved one because in my opinion also Monte Libera achieved great success on the practical level like concept level, which became was already implemented on many levels as a network, as a community, and as a, construction, which has started already and developing full scale.

Am I correct?

Tatyana Butanka: Yes. Also a big part of Montenegro success is that we are here in Montenegro. There are not, it’s a small country. The 600, 000 people. Our services are quite limited. We have nice weather, so we have food all year round. Now it’s tangerine and oranges and lemon season.

Vegetables and we are, we are not this. We are not distracted by lots of services and lots of choice and it keeps us even more committed to the project. There is not much destruction in Montenegro, only beautiful weather. And lots of freedom.

Emily Bron: And here I have some, I think questions that I was brewing in myself how does the local and central Montenegro government react to your project company existence and activities, any issues or support from their side, what kind of relationship you develop?

Tatyana Butanka: Be honest, we we. We don’t do anything that would upset them specifically, we follow the regulations and one of the reasons why Montenegro was a good fit is that actually there is already lots of freedom that exists in Montenegro. First of all, it’s one of the newest country in the world.

It’s it was only established in 2006. The other side is that they’re actually quite a mix of people, even though it’s a small country. It’s a very mountainous country. Mountainous people are usually very pro freedom, independent, and they had lots of small kind of tribes families.

So they actually have a big mix of Albanians, Serbians, Bosnians Montenegrins. We don’t feel like we are, this kind of small community of Russian speakers. Our community is a lot of Russian speakers, not only, but a lot. So we, I feel like we integrate quite well. We didn’t have all that, difference, like all that tension through history, because we were quite far away, the Russian speakers.

And that’s why, if they have a little bit of tension between, let’s say maybe Albanians with Montenegrins Russians don’t actually they actually in a kind of favorable position. So the government, I would only say that the governments that came to power lately, they’re very kind of pro-European Union and, and they are also very pro cryptocurrency.

If you’ve heard, there is the project by Vitalik Ian from Ethereum. And he started a project called Vital, and they are doing popup cities here and there where he gets people together, they’re discussing longevity different crypto.

Emily Bron: So last year he was at Montenegro? Yes. Vital.

Tatyana Butanka: It was a bit over a year ago. Yes. But it started in Montenegro. Yes. And he, I think he resides a lot in Montenegro. He has his passport from Montenegro. He was granted a passport. By the government so they we were at that conference. We actually presented there and the government was there they actually had the premier minister and I think finance minister of finance back then and they were Very supportive for this kind of communities.

They said Even to the point they said if this community think that we should just let people come to this conference and maybe reside in Montenegro and we will just we can have some kind of agreement that whatever this community decides, we will support them and just be let the people in and not make any kind of problems for them, et cetera.

So that’s how this

Emily Bron: great opportunity.

Tatyana Butanka: Yeah. That’s how they started. I would say the fact that they they’re very much on track of getting into European union is a tiny bit, maybe not the perfect scenario. Because obviously lots of regulations, lots of requirements, changes.

So we will see how it’s going, but so far it’s not happening anytime soon. We still, quite comfortable to do what we’ve been doing. But again, we are very open to discussions, conversations. We know some people who are very close to government, some lawyers, libertarians as well, who are following what we are doing and very supportive of what we are doing.

Emily Bron: So government is open to communicate and support if needed. It’s a rare and excellent situation. And I wish, it will be the same for the long time. And still explaining a little bit more about the concept of Montelibera community is captivating. And I copy it again from your site, one paragraph, just to, to explain people that, The project aims not only to relocate like minded individuals and improve their lives, but also to enable them to peacefully and lawfully promote and implement long term solutions for improving the life of society in general, at least by developing and achieving prosperity together with a new home country.

At best, by starting the domino effect by encouraging like minded individuals from other countries to follow our example. A successful implementation of our ideas in a country open to change and innovation would serve as a proof of concept, helping the idea spread and gain more support, motivating people all over the world to break free of the chain of autoritarianism which I fully agree so Can you tell me now? What makes your communities different from other intentional communities which are popping up, you know here in there. How would you define it? I would say

Tatyana Butanka: both of those communities at least, who were presented at the Free state project free three cities foundation conference.

Sorry Liberty in our lifetime. They are a lot. I would say they’re attached to a specific place whereas we started as You know an idea We do have a physical place. We really encourage people to concentrate closer to a bar area in Montenegro But if they feel like it’s too much for them and they prefer to stay where they are You maybe in their country or go somewhere else, they can still participate.

So I guess what we created is we have something that connects us. So the declaration, as you have read on the website the volunteers principles, and then and then we have the tools that are here for the community to then act. So basically we just provide the tools that you can use.

And then you decide how you want to utilize it. If you want to participate and maybe make money by investing into the community, there are ways to do it. If you, the opposite, if you are, if you have just relocated, you need some support, you have just arrived. We had a program actually we still have this program that we will help you to relocate.

We will make sure the first month you’re covered. We will tell you about how to get more of a the first month, even I don’t know if it’s still the case, but people were able to leave free of charge. On

Emily Bron: premises

Tatyana Butanka: of

Emily Bron: your community, you mean?

Tatyana Butanka: Yes, on premises, yeah, we had some agreement with hotels and we obviously built in our own city, so there was some space available to live there.

So we were very supportive of people to relicate, especially taking into account all the, current events that are happening. So I guess there are plenty of tools and you decide how you want to participate. If you just want to see it in some telegram or discord chats.

Discuss philosophical questions of libertarianism or speak about Montenegro There are chats to do it. We have all over 150 chats on different topics, if you just want to support a community in Montenegro or just to meet somewhere for Breakfasts in bar from time to time. You’re welcome to come as well.

If you want to become part of the Montenegro club, which we now have two clubs You are also welcome to do you can become the member. If the social aspect is more important for you, then yeah. Again, if you want to start your own business, there is support for that. If you want money for your business, there is support for that.

If yeah, we basically provide everything that you would need in order to flourish, and I feel that’s a big difference in the communities usually Let’s say they create a community that is tied to a physical place. But what is the economics? How, like, where will you work?

What commitments do you need to do? And those are the things we thought about. We have, as you said, our own court system. If you have some conflict in the community to sort out, We have the our own currencies, stable coin or not stable coin, our coin where you can actually make money, get dividends.

It also grows in price. It is invested into tangible things that are very valuable. Again, you, if you come up with your own idea just do your own idea. We are very supportive of that. We will help you create your own token. For example, we will help you develop your own business idea. We, it’s part of the project now in Monteligro city, which is 15 minutes away from bar.

We now want to make like a techno park where it’s like a university. So you learn, but in order to launch your project quite quickly. So bringing the resources together in order to implement whatever you think is is a good business idea.

Emily Bron: So what kind of businesses are you trying to attract now?

The first kind of emergency. I understand that you would like to have different area of businesses and services, and you mentioned there is not so many in Montenegro as a country, but what do you feel is priority for Monte Libera now, what kind of people and businesses you would like to have?

Tatyana Butanka: I don’t think we have a priority of like businesses needed because we already we already have a few businesses that are integrated to the tokenomics. That are doing participating in different projects. So it’s not like we have a requirement and that’s the beauty of it is if you are part of non deliberate projects you need to feel yourself what you think would be needed.

Emily Bron: Now, for example, I have some ideas, but I don’t know if you need it. So it’s a matter of discussion. Yes.

Tatyana Butanka: Yeah. But the thing is that look we’ve got the platform called MADIS. So for example, if you have a business idea, you come to  MADIS, they can help you develop a business plan or just maybe advise you on some things that they already understand about what’s needed in Montenegro, or if your business is actually for outside of Montenegro, they could also maybe, advise because we actually have specialists in lots of different areas.

And then they can, for example, if you need funding, they can help you write the business plan, apply for the funding from the fund, and then the fund decides if this is something that they would be interested to invest in. This is something that they think could potentially be good for the community and potentially, bring some money for the investors

Emily Bron: so I can live, for example, in Mexico.

But be part of your community supported some way with my project or ideas? Yes. It’s what you were referring to because.

Tatyana Butanka: Yeah, it’s, I you decide yourself what kind of tools within Monteligro you want to be part of for example, people who live in Monteligro city. One family, they they saw a need that, it’s quite far away from bar.

It’s 15 minutes drive. It’s not that far away, but still public transport would be. sometimes challenging and not everybody has a car to drive. So they created a car rental service right in the city. So you can now rent a car for half a day or for a day for just 10 or 15 euros a day. So there are a few cars that you just you just write the request on Telegram chat and you pay with your MTLs and you just take that car and drive it to bar and or wherever you need to drive, so somebody who has a

rental service for yacht and it’s, again, people come up with this idea and then they try it, some people provide like fresh trout from up north of Montenegro and sell it within the community. So it’s really up to you what you want to do the community won’t die if there is some service missing because you just go and buy it from outside of the community, just go to the market or go elsewhere so we see more and more businesses,

Emily Bron: but it’s great for local people, like for people living in Montenegro, but I understand that Montalibera plan is also to engage more people from the different cultures countries to join the community. And what does this growth trajectory looks like? How you envision it?

Tatyana Butanka: We envision it. Lots of people, for example, they invest in the fund. That’s an easy, relatively easy thing to do is buy some MTL tokens. Some people see, Oh, maybe we need our own wallet, for example. And they create a wallet or they they see the need, sometimes like we advertise, maybe something needed, like for example.

Okay. We need a person to help us deliver festival. Like we need a project manager for arranging a festival. We’ve already had the second annual festival in Montenegro. So we sometimes publish those jobs. We have the chat, the telegram group for MTL employment, where people post different opportunities.

And I say, there is something within the community as well. It can be posted as well. It’s really up to you of what you can contribute. Like of course sometimes we might request some things like who can do the new design of I don’t know, a website or it’s really up to what you as a member see is needed.

Emily Bron: How many living members you have now in community, and I understand you have in your city. certain amount of people, and some people live all over the Montenegro, correct? But about what numbers we are speaking?

Tatyana Butanka: We have over 200 people living in Montenegro. In the city we have about 20 people living now, and then lots of about 30 people coming every day.

But again, it’s a, it’s mostly a construction site still. It’s like a building site. I have a lot of land there. I haven’t started building myself. But I wouldn’t want to leave there for example, at the moment with a small child, it’s. I think, it’s like a bit of a building site still.

I know some people live there and it’s okay for them, but like for me, I just really like my comfort. So I live nearby. I commute to the city quite often. Like tomorrow, for example, we have a meeting in the city regarding some media activities in the community, like what could be done. I know there are some people who now thinking about launching a radio in Montenegro or Montelibero.

So yeah, so tomorrow there is that meeting if you want to attend, we have the calendar events event calendar, as you said, so you just go check out, or what’s going on there. Do I want to attend? Do I have something to say about it? Do I want to join online? Like you could, for example, join online and see what maybe you could provide something regarding media content for Montelibro.

So yeah, this is, it’s quite open and that’s why you can join. If you feel energy to participate in this kind of events, brainstorm about it. You’re welcome to join

Emily Bron: and I know and it was written on Multiple sources and i’m by the way part of your russian speaking and english speaking telegram community That you’re trying to attract people from different cultures countries who obviously matching your libertarian ideas declaration actually to be part of the community, but What kind of people and now cultural and age demographics, maybe business type or political orientation would be welcomed and match with MTL spirit and ethos.

Tatyana Butanka: Oh, we have very different demographics. I say we are at the moment, primarily Russian speakers where I think about 85 percent are Russian speakers the community members. But again, we have English speakers we have some people from India, Norway, et cetera. So Germany, actually, there is a big community of Germans in Montenegro not far from the city.

So we are really open. It’s just because obviously lots of people are Russian speakers maybe sometimes when you just come to the club, but there is no, English speaking event happening. Mostly people will be speaking in Russian around, and it’s. I guess being a, minority can be a little bit challenging, but I say some people some people are absolutely fine with that.

And so it doesn’t scare them whatsoever, or they participate in some other shape or form, cause obviously we want to be more international and we are very open to different cultures. But of course, when you have a majority of people who are Russian speakers or only Russian speakers, let’s say they don’t understand English at all, or Serbian then of course it makes it a tiny bit more difficult.

But would say we have lots of young people coming I guess young, twenty, twenty five lads, mostly guys.

Emily Bron: What about fifty plus? Because, actually, I care about this age category, and I believe that, I know that there are enough libertarian people with this age group and they have a lot of experience and professional otherwise, which they can contribute.

But I don’t know, again, if you have this kind of people and if you’re ready to accommodate.

Tatyana Butanka: Oh we are very ready. Like we have people 50 plus we have people, we have actually, I would say, Now in the community, and I’m speaking not online community because online community is more than 2000 people.

I’m speaking about offline community. So people you meet here a lot. We, I would say we have about 20%, 25 percent in the community over 50. We have probably the biggest group would be 30 to 40. 30 to 45, 35 to 45, actually, I would say. Yeah, this is probably the biggest group. But then, yeah, we also see lots of young people coming, who

Emily Bron: For, the young people, and it’s what I noticed in Montenegro being a first time this year because I was surrounded with many young people speaking Russian.

It was strange for me. It was the first day. So then I used to it, and I was in Budva. In Kotor it was a little bit different because it’s more touristic, I understand, and different kind of people living over there. But I notice, like for me, kind of Monte Libero, it’s mostly for the young people.

And thinking about myself, and I’m looking for the community eventually to join, and physical community to live with I thought, okay, I don’t know how, if I’m matching the crowd, even with my language and other cultural knowledge. I understand, even I didn’t live for years in Russia.

But and I thought how other people coming from, from Canada, say, English people, from different background, how they would match your community. And if you have some kind of requirement, application, or who decide who would join or not, or it’s fully voluntarily, everyone can join. And it will be some issue and I don’t know if you’ve had so far because sometimes people think that they would be okay, but after then, some arguments, I would say, or misunderstanding might spoil, the fabric of community.

Tatyana Butanka: Yes, I would tell you that it is not really. We are very open and welcoming community. So people over 50, over 60 feel absolutely comfortable, if they’re in this kind of mindset. You don’t feel uncomfortable yourself there is really nothing, that are, we have very open minded regarding age, regarding.

Nationality very welcoming. I would say as well, Montenegro, it’s important to understand that it’s a small country and people basically different cities have very different vibe. For example, if you come to Budva, it’s quite a small town. It’s easy to commute without a car. And lots of young people go there.

There are lots of parties, more business opportunities. So lots of young people actually end up in Budva, people without families. But then if you come to Bar, this is a more family kind of place. It’s a tiny bit cheaper and it’s more flat. So it’s, much easier to park, much easier to move around.

Many more people do some kind of handcrafts. They do they have their own gardens. They grow their own food. So I would say it’s just a different vibe, so lots of families here. So if you look at like Russian speakers, I would say it’s mostly families and older people coming here. So that’s why, if you want some kind of rich luxury, if you own a yacht, that’s why I would go to the US.

Emily Bron: No, I’m not speaking about luxury, but, some services, because, when we going growing up, I would say we need some medical facilities, we need some services essential. I would say, actually to every age, but I know that when I’m speaking with people after 50, speaking about relocation and actually I was doing my research for years about medical system, health system in different countries, it’s one of the countries essential questions and That’s why I didn’t visit yet Bar, and I understand that it’s in with development and with more people coming, to the city or region I believe the more construction and development of services Would go I don’t know in your experience you’re living already For several years, yes, in a bar, like what what kind of development is around?

So I understand you building your kind of subdivision as Monte Libera city, but at the same time of with newcomers coming from North America, from other countries, I believe there’s some development in the city.

Tatyana Butanka: Yes, there is lots of development. I would say Montenegro medicine is okay.

I actually just yesterday I was in hospital. So now I’m actually back from hospital. So I first, it was my first time to experience the hospital, which is five minutes walk away from my house. So I actually walked into hospital with my problem have been seen straight away. Problem sorted. I’m actually it was all covered.

I didn’t pay anything because actually I have a UK passport and England, they have an agreement with Montenegro that even as a tourist, if you need anything urgent help, you will actually be covered free of charge. So I haven’t paid anything. And there are lots of now. So people who relocated Russian doctors, for example, if you don’t speak Serbian yet, and if you prefer to have a Russian doctor, lots of these doctors now receive their license and they actually it’s I would say medical system in term of you will get seen quite quickly.

There are enough hospitals around the country. I would just say, if you have some really complicated case, some very rare illness. You will miss. They will, they have agreement with Belgrade, with Serbia, and even, I think they arrange it, so they arrange a flight for you with local nurses that take you to the hospital in Serbia.

Yes, but this is if you have some kind of rare, complicated, of course, if you’ve got something urgent for example, you broke your arm or something like this, they sort it out here.

Emily Bron: It’s emergency here, but if some specialist required, people can go to Belgrade. Coming back to culture do you have time and people learning Serbian?

Because, again Russian, it’s okay, but it’s probably not enough to communicate with local people, specifically if you need to go to different organization, to hospitals. And as I say, always out of respect to the Serbian people.

Tatyana Butanka: Actually, I’m just, I always, I’m always surprised how much we’re in the favorable position here in Montenegro, because Russian speakers have been the main tourists for so many years, they actually made an effort to, first of all, learn Russian they very often speak German or English as well.

Because actually lots of people, because of the Yugoslavian wars, they migrated to German speaking countries. And then they, for example, come, came back later to leave it again in Montenegro. So lots of them speak foreign languages. They’re very open minded. They’re, they have experience living abroad in the U S in Europe.

And actually, sometimes like I come to the veterinary or I come to some kind of doctor and they speak. Either russian or english to me like I

Emily Bron: don’t actually even need Government officials you need to do your residency. You need you know, you need to communicate with government and I don’t know if these people are Yeah,

Tatyana Butanka: I would say so even in hospital I was actually quite impressed even a woman who was like She looked like she’s over 60 working in the government organization, you know in the hospital She actually spoke good English to me.

So it’s, I would say Russian or English and you’ll be pretty, yes. I, I’ve, because I’m actually I don’t speak good Serbian unfortunately yet. I’m just very busy with some other things. I hope one day, I will learn it. I understand it, of course, a little bit. It’s similar to Russian.

But I’m very impressed how they make an effort. Like what other country makes an effort to speak in your language? If you come to England, nobody will try to make an effort to speak Russian to you, but here they actually really try,

Emily Bron: absolutely. So you made the correct choice starting country on your company and project in Montenegro.

So I quickly realized this even before being in Montenegro and when I was in Montenegro, like I was, yeah, but it’s not about me. I care and I need to bring a knowledge, what people can expect. And I’m speaking to my main clients, Canada, United States, even maybe some other countries.

Tatyana Butanka: I would say lots of young people here in Montenegro, they speak English, seriously not a problem with that. And if you need, for example, to go through some like government process, getting borrowed, et cetera, I would just recommend bringing a translator with you to this kind of appointments, just to be safe.

Emily Bron: But you can find because in Canada, yeah, we have all kinds of translators and actually good business around Because we have people coming from different countries and translators It’s actually even official position to go to court or another so there’s enough people here But I was not sure how it works in Montenegro.

Tatyana Butanka: Yeah, it’s seriously. It’s not a problem at all You need to professional translator to translate an official document. You have it, you have a list of people you need a translator just to come with you to the meeting. It’s all very affordable, very easy. So I would not be stressed about it. We have even people in the community who will help you.

So you just write in our Montalibro chat that you need this and this help, and we have people to speak to. Qualified translators who will help you to get whatever you need to get done.

Emily Bron: Great news And next question let’s speak a little bit about different aspect of life in your life moving to Montenegro and Actively promoting self sufficiency in resilience in all areas of life Is a bold move, especially from girl from the big city And I know at least I read that you are very interested in permaculture and agorism and i’m just Interested how these principles Integrate in your life and actually in the spirit of monte libero as community.

Tatyana Butanka: Yes yeah, I would say Monte liberal community I’m one of the people who speak the most about being self sustained, yeah, about permaculture, about not that much ecology, even though, yes I do consider a lot of that kind of aspect. But for example, like I’m not a specialist in different rubbish plastic processing, but this is something that we want to implement in our city as well.

But Montelibro in that sense we do think about, okay, how do we make ourselves resilient? So we have the city project, which is one of the biggest, but again, it’s not the only one. And more can be again, launched. For example, there are enough people who say, Oh, we want to do a project. I dunno, up in the mountains for, I dunno some big farm with sheep and cows, you find like minded people, you do it, no problem.

And so we have other projects so we have three hectares of land. It’s about 20 minutes drive from the city, which is one hectare of field and two hectares of forest. So if you need forest for the community, we actually have it. If you need, you literally purchased

Emily Bron: as a community.

Tatyana Butanka: Yeah. It’s purchased. Yeah. It’s actually been purchased a long time ago. It’s just, we’re not really doing anything with it because I guess there is not enough need for that. And it is quite remote actually. Like you need to commute there and the road is not very good, but it is there. If we needed, one day.

We need a forestry or, somebody decides that they are brave enough to go and start growing food on that field and create some kind of infrastructure to be able to do it. It’s there, but it’s just idle at the moment. It’s not actually much done with it. Then we actually, Monteligro invested in the project up North called Mountain Land, which is 16 hectares of land.

And those guys. They’re very they’re very permaculture, ecology regeneration oriented people. Also a lot about children, educating children getting them to understand the nature, interact with it. So lots of children are coming for summer camps in the summer to the land. And we want to restore food for it.

Emily Bron: What you are growing, personally? What are you growing? What kind of plants or veggies? We’re on

Tatyana Butanka: that project up north.

Emily Bron: Oh, I understood that you are working. I don’t know. You have your backyard or community. Oh

Tatyana Butanka: we to be honest, like where we live now, we actually live in it’s a private house. It’s a private house where I live.

We are renting at the moment. so we want to build a separate village. We’ll be permaculture village and probably for vegetarians, vegans. Cause we actually, we don’t eat meat or dairy at home. So we actually found a few families now who want to help each other raise the children together.

And actually we will probably not consume kind of meat products in public there. It’s a whole kind of different project. It will be under Monteligro, but a separate kind of village. At the moment, I don’t I own a small plot of land in the city, but it is the city. It’s a small plot of land.

It’s actually not that big. It’s 150 square meters. So there won’t be a big garden. I can probably put a lemon tree and an orange tree, which is good enough but it’s mostly, I look at it as it will be for the needs of the city. Maybe it will be some business kind of building, or maybe it will be a residential.

Building, but just like at a smaller scale, but for me personally, like where we live, it’s a private Private property. And there are a few tenants in the house, so the hosts themselves, and they have a big garden and they let us do if we want to grow some herbs, they let us grow herbs there.

But actually they have already a lot of mature trees cause we live here in subtropical climate. So they actually have olive tree. I don’t really deal with all this because it’s quite a process, but we actually, we have been eating now persimmons from the garden lemons from the garden, oranges.

So we basically just go into the garden and we just take what we need. And yeah, they said, if you need some space to grow your own little garden, like to have your vegetables, for example. You are welcome to go and do so for me, it’s at the moment that’s at this kind of level, but again, it’s because we are actually looking for a place for this permaculture village, which will be part of Montelibro project as well.

Yeah, that’s it.

Emily Bron: Thank you. And you mentioned several times about like purchasing plots of land and construction and all this. I’m not clear. Is it done, I’m sorry, on the personal money or it’s a community? Like where’s this fund is coming from? Who is subsidizing actually all the development?

Tatyana Butanka: When I’m speaking again there is MTL fund the first Montalibro fund who is one of the biggest investors in Montalibro city, for example.

But then they had residential plots that everybody could purchase separately. And I own 150 square meters. Just to myself, but I’m also because I’m a shareholder in the fund. I also, I’m also kind of part of the the bigger infrastructure than just my plot of land.

Emily Bron: So people invested in the fund and after then this fund subsidized.

Land purchase, construction, or different other projects. Am I correct?

Tatyana Butanka: Yeah, they purchased it first fully, and then they separated it into smaller parts, and some of those parts were sold for personal to your name, in in other projects, for example mountain lands Monteligro is actually really not the biggest investor.

It has maybe 4%, only 4 or 5 percent in mountain land, but it’s 16 hectares of land project. And it is a joint project. Like it won’t be separated into pieces. That’s the whole idea of it. We are rebuilding the food forest there. We are bringing kind of life to it. It will be a very social kind of project where people can come rest there for retreats for holidays for summer camps for Children.

So we wanted to be like this divided project. So this 16 actors. Community. Yeah. Yeah. But Montelibro is like a small kind of player in there, but it’s still, it’s an important project, I think. So it depends what kind of project we speak about. Like some of it is started by the founder of the Montelibro and some of it, they just found that it already existed and they decided to support it.

Emily Bron: Great. Beyond your professional and divorce, You like water sports, like windsurfing roller ski skiing? Probably. It’s not so comfortable with skiing in Montenegro, but who knows, maybe on the mountain in the future you do? No.

Tatyana Butanka: Yeah, we have an amazing ski resort actually because I usually ski in the Alps.

I ski in the Alps a lot in France, in Austria.

Emily Bron: But in Montenegro

Tatyana Butanka: in Montenegro. Yeah, it’s a one and a half hours drive away from bar We have an amazing ski resort 55 kilometers of track and they I think they are planning to extend it to 200.

Emily Bron: Oh, here you go. So you have All what you need But you struck me with your unique hobby of making barefoot shoes And I’m trying to understand actually, what does it mean?

And what led you to this hobby? So it’s really shoe without soul? What is here?

Tatyana Butanka: Yeah. Yeah, barefoot shoes. It is something I discovered as I am actually a lot into health. I’ve been doing. I’ve done powerlifting in my life, even competed in powerlifting. So spent lots of time in the gym, learning about nutrition, but learning about how medicine works in your body.

I’m a big follower of the high wire show. If you know the high wire, Robert Kennedy was involved quite a bit with with Del Bigtree, who is the, Who’s one of the main guys in the Highwire show, and they, it’s basically medical news and yeah, basically I’m a little bit on the trying to be on track of what’s going on in the health world and how to protect ourselves, how to improve your life, what can you do for your body.

And I was just like I was struggling a lot with back pain, knee pain with bunion on the foot, if the problem. And, it’s just Oh my God, like I’m wearing sneakers and I’m doing yoga and I’m a healthy person. What’s wrong? Why do I have pain in my body? Why do I have pain in my shoulders, in my back?

And it’s a bit over, when was it? Maybe three years ago or two and a half years ago. I discovered this three years ago. Barefoot shoes. I was like, Oh my God.

Emily Bron: So it’s a sandals. What exactly? We speak

Tatyana Butanka: No, barefoot shoes. Basically there are three criteria that need to be followed, but basically barefoot shoes basically means that those are shoes that allow your foot to behave as if you are without the shoe, So if you look at what modern shoes very often are, they’re quite pointy.

They’re restrictive for your finger, for your toes. And if you actually look at how your body behaves in children or when you are barefoot, even all our foot moves a lot, like all the muscles are very important the feet. Because it is just this little surface that actually carries the whole weight of your body.

That needs to work really well in order to be able to carry this body in the correct way. So actually our toes are supposed to move like when you make a step, they split a bit. This, especially this big toe, it moves a bit on the side. So actually your shoes are supposed to not limit you.

This kind of movement. And also no heel lift. Because very often modern shoes, they have heels. And another thing modern shoes have is a kind of, very thick, unflexible sole. So your, actually your foot doesn’t really move.

Emily Bron: It’s very important for me as well, because I’m trying, and unfortunately I live in a climate where I cannot have all year round open shoes, because Of certain issues I prefer to have open ending, like open shoes, but I’m trying to understand what is your role?

Are you making them from some material? What is the

Tatyana Butanka: yeah, I make it, but it is, I would say it is my hobby. I would say before I moved to Montenegro, I was more on track with it. I got all the materials in England. I had it all set up in Montenegro. I keep it as a hobby when I have time, but I have lots of other kind of projects that are taking my time off.

I would say I make shoes a bit less, but it is a hobby. I can’t sell them, but it is mostly a hobby. Now I will just tell you, all my shoes are now barefoot, not depending on the weather. If it’s minus 20, I have barefoot shoes for minus 20. I have a I have a little page on I have a page on Instagram if you want to see, I do reviews of different brands. I personally I like making it’s called the ballet flats. So I crochet them. So the top is crocheted and the sole is just normal sole. I just glue it to the knitted sole and then it’s all attached together. You can wear it outdoors if it’s like not rainy because it’s obviously a knitted shoe.

You can wear it at home as slippers but they’re very good looking shoes.

Emily Bron: Unbelievable. You are the person of really many traits including Sandler, which I could not imagine. I thought that you’re doing maybe something from, I don’t know, fabric, textile or.

Tatyana Butanka: No. It’s crocheting, it’s just, I would say shoe production. Like you. If you want to then scale it, it’s it is actually quite lots of work. Yes, I guess maybe one day I will embark on that journey.

Emily Bron: Maybe you’ll launch a factory like with your own design and brand, because look, it’s it’s might be needed for people.

And

Tatyana Butanka: I think more what’s needed now, I think there are brands already out there. It’s not like there is no shoes available, but I think what’s needed more is the awareness, the shift in people’s minds. And maybe you see brands are available, but for example, not enough stores, like for example, where people can walk and try them on and actually understand the benefits of it.

I would say rather than like producing more of them, maybe actually having a store here and there and having some. Like education, why it is so important. Start in Monte Libero, start in bar, in the store, you are busy. Yeah, I need to get the money. I need to get the money, funding for that. And some time as well, because I have a few projects going on at the moment.

When I have energy, definitely.

Emily Bron: And how do you envision the future of your community eco living integrating technology like Blockchain or defy what you have and other any particular projects or innovation with Monte Libera that especially excite you as of now? You mentioned a couple of projects you’re busy with.

Tatyana Butanka: Everything excites me about about Montelibro. But I guess something I just leave to the professionals. For example, I’m not doing programming. I leave it up to them. They come up with some kind of new, I don’t know, apps, new ideas. I’m more like, especially because I have a small child, I try to be much less online and more present, more offline, just to, to be a good example for my child and to interact and socialize.

So I would say I participate more in spend a lot of time in the club. I I did the festival. So the first festival and the second one, I was Volunteer as well and mountain land project up north. This is probably my I’m the biggest representative from Monteligro in that project.

So I traveled there and I stay in touch with the guys and we plan what we do there, and I love that they bring lots of children to that land as well. So my child can communicate with them. So I guess this is something that I’m more excited about and also for guess I, I understand the importance of recreating forests, and I would say I’m relatively not novice to it, but I’m very open to learning more about it and contributing and making it happen.

And I’m actually, I’m also very grateful that we are doing this project in the country that is. It’s one of the wildest countries in Europe. So the biggest amount of forest in Montenegro, it’s the biggest variety of different wildlife, different climate zones. When you look at the map of, I don’t know, Austria or even Serbia with no trees around, but then, you understand all these big problems like flooding happening, it’s.

Because this ecosystem has been so disrupted, there are no forests that with their roots, they hold the waters, they make sure that there is no kind of overflow of it. Looking at the map, when you just look at all the squares. Forest destroyed, completely, it just breaks my heart.

I just see something completely wrong with it, because it’s such a such an important habitat for so many species, including us. We all came from the forest. That was our provider. That’s what’s fed us. That’s what provided shelter for us. And yeah, monkey stage, yeah, but yeah previous generation.

Emily Bron: You mean previous generations, not us.

Tatyana Butanka: Yes, no, but it’s true, when forest, that’s why, people feel so good in the forest, because this is actually our natural habitat, and living just in concrete, no seeing the trees around, nothing. I’m being in the forest makes us usually very depressed, very disconnected, and how important forests are for wildlife or different plants as well, because, for example, sometimes there is a dry season and then your vegetable, for example, it starts drying out, but actually trees, they hold water with their roots.

So they provide this kind of supply of water. They hold it so well, and they provide for us. Lots around it. So I guess I’m just very passionate about this whole reforestation projects that are happening in the world. And I want to be part of it contribute the way I can contribute. But yeah, so I just basically meet it somewhere on the cross with economic freedom and then making sure we protect the forests as much as we can for our children.

Emily Bron: And we soon will wrap up, but I have so many questions and I don’t want to torture you, I will leave some of them for the next meeting but When you are in Montenegro. Yeah no, but now I would like to bring Such a question as approach to education, as you mentioned, you have already children and several generation soon to come.

How does the Monte Libera approach education speaking about or teaching about defy or teaching about eco living or actually what kind of education you plan or maybe already provide to your children or community children?

Tatyana Butanka: Yes. It’s actually really up to each individual. Some people choose to homeschool, some people choose to unschool, some people want to integrate their children better in Montenegro, so they send them to local schools.

But we make sure, our club is very children friendly. They do a few classes a week actually, where children can join a painting class and also our children attend classes where they make their own toys, like they engineer toys themselves. Which is like really good really good activity for them to do.

But mostly we have lots of interesting conversations there. Lectures and children are always very welcome. So we basically just make sure that they participate in the conversations. They they have access to, it depends on the age of children, but they have access to chats and what’s going on in the community with freedom with lots of perspective, pretty much.

Like adults, that they can contribute. And I would say we don’t have that specific big emphasis on concentration on children. We concentrate on building something, but children they just around us all the time. So they are very encouraged.

Emily Bron: It’s the best education.

If they can participate or they really aware, listening to what parents or others speaking And I don’t know, they’re probably asking questions and I don’t know, but I believe they need to communicate with local children as well to pick a language to be part of Montenegro because Anyway you live in Montenegro, and I believe that integration should start, with local people, even with all values of other languages.

Tatyana Butanka: Yeah, but we are very first of all, lots of lots of people who relocated, they started. Something, for example, in bar or in Budva, they started nurseries. They started cedars for children. They started classes for them. So there is actually a lot available outside of Montelibro. Some of it is within Montelibro.

And again, this, for example, somebody started a nursery and they’re also part of Montelibro. So they said, yeah you’re welcome to pay your cryptocurrency. That’s it. Here in my nursery, so it’s not like exclusive. It’s either it’s just for Monteligro or it’s just outside of Monteligro. It can be proposed and that’s what lots of businesses are doing.

They are accepting local Euro currency and they accepting tokens and they encourage sometimes Monteligro residents in order to encourage them to attend their business.

Emily Bron: So how well actually crypto is spread in Montenegro? It’s many services or people exchange and operate with crypto.

It’s like in El Salvador or how it works in Europe?

Tatyana Butanka: Not like in El Salvador. Montenegro is actually a lot about cash payments. Very often you will see that they don’t accept cards. But. Again, if they accept your MTL, you can pay with your MTL, with our token. Yeah it is.

Emily Bron: In what form the MTL is coming?

I’m trying to, it’s like up, like how people are paying, like for the local services.

Tatyana Butanka: Yes. Like it’s different wallets you can use. It’s like for block or a Bitcoin, for example, like we created a wallet on the Telegram, which is Telegram bot. You basically just connect your wallet. I want to send that and that to this person.

Boom, you sent it through Telegram bot. If you don’t want to install a separate app, you want to install a separate app, there are apps already created. Lobster, for example, or an app that has been actually created by our community called Sunsa Wallet. So there are different options, how you can pay.

Emily Bron: Okay.

It’s probably a topic for separate conversation about like exchange between different crypto. I was overthinking about it, but I was curious how local people who used to operate with Euro how, like if it’s worth for them, because it should be recognized for them that, it’s value or I don’t know how, Crypto education is well spread for in Montenegro, like society.

Tatyana Butanka: It’s, if you as a business owner understand the value of it, if you understand the value of crypto, if you understand the value of our currency, then you accept it. If you don’t understand it, you don’t accept it. That’s as easy as that.

Emily Bron: That I believe some kind of education about value of crypto probably already exist or should be point even for your community.

Tatyana Butanka: Like everywhere in the world, like in Canada, I’m sure there are some conferences about cryptocurrency and people are welcome to come and attend to understand

it. No, not in Canada.

Oh, okay.

Emily Bron: In Canada, it’s mostly I don’t know. No, it was underground. We are not allowed to be a pretty socialistic country.

And no kind of people have it.

Tatyana Butanka: There are conferences. There are people promoting crypto speaking about it. There was a Bitcoin conference where we participated.

Emily Bron: I know in other countries, and probably, but it was, but not now in Canada, but okay. It’s a separate question. We are part of Commonwealth, so you understand the specifics of our country. And finally. What advice do you have for individuals especially in midlife who are looking to reinvent themselves or relocate in to build their life in alignment with values similar to yours to be part of your international community?

What would you say?

Tatyana Butanka: Yes, I would say, to find the community where you feel that could be a good fit for you, where you will be valued, where your expertise, your knowledge will be respected. It could be our community. It could be some other community. I would say, I guess this age, when you’re over 50 it’s so valuable.

You have so much knowledge, you have so much. That you can share hopefully resources accumulated. So you’re not just trying to survive provide for your family for your future Children. So this is very needed. You are needed. And just finding the right spot for yourself or maybe even creating that spot for others.

Sometimes if you see the lack on the market somewhere where you could maybe start some project where your expertise is needed and you can actually maybe connect other people who can bring their expertise there you’re in that position where. You don’t have small children to look after anymore.

If you don’t try to make money for your first house or try to survive, to feed your family. All that is just so valuable for the communities. And just encourage you to not just think, Oh, I’ll just buy a house somewhere on the coast and go into retirement mode and just enjoy my life.

I think that’s much more exciting to contribute into freedom movement, into something you deeply believe in some projects that, you want to do. See the world going towards in the future. I would just encourage people to like, really not give up and and look for those opportunities, be open to those opportunities because I think it’s that kind of page that is just valuable and like we need that support, we need that energy.

We would be very appreciative of that. People in middle age, they would find their way to our kind of communities.

Emily Bron: Thank you very much, Tatiana. I wish you personally and all communities the best, and I will try from my side to spread the knowledge and actually this interview, conversation to other platform and let know people about existence of such wonderful community in Montenegro.

And I myself very inspired, but I’m such a person and but I truly believe for, and I see your special place is a community in the movement of eco living and intentional communities as of now, thank you very much for your time and enthusiasm and for all you are doing every day.

Tatyana Butanka: Thank you so much. And hopefully we’ll see you soon very soon in Montenegro again.

Emily Bron: Maybe next year. Thank you.

Tatyana Butanka: Bye.

What a fantastic journey this has been. We’ve been speaking with Tatiana Butanka of Monte Libera and her insights on building a sustainable future, embracing community, and merging the best of ancient wisdom with cutting edge technology is nothing short of revolutionary. To our listeners, Today’s conversation sparked a flame of curiosity and the urge to redefine the boundaries of your own lives.

Remember, there is always time to reinvent your world and be the change you wish to see. Before we say goodbye, follow us on our favorite podcast platform and join our conversation on social media. We always love hearing your thoughts and stories of personal reinvention. Until next time, keep reinventing, keep exploring, and may your days be filled with purpose and passion.

I’m Emily Bron. And this has been the Age of Reinvention. Take care and embrace your journey.

Tatiana Bugrova

Business & Technology Strategist | Sales & Marketing Expert

I connect business and technology to drive growth, efficiency, and innovation. With expertise in CRM, data analytics, IT solutions, digital marketing, and project management, I bridge the gap between people and solutions to create impact. Passionate about leveraging technology to solve real-world challenges.

In a world buzzing with change and innovation, Emily Bron’s Age of Reinvention podcast brings forward stories and insights that inspire transformative living. In a recent episode, Emily sat down with Tatiana Butanka, a trailblazer in decentralized finance and a leading figure in the MonteLibero community in Montenegro. Together, they explored the intricacies of intentional communities and the harmonious blend of technology with sustainable living.

Exploring the MonteLibero Vision

Monte Libera is more than just a hub for libertarian ideals; it is a thriving experiment in building a self-sufficient, eco-friendly society. As Tatiana explains, the community started with online conversations among libertarian IT professionals passionate about freedom—politically, economically, and socially. These discussions culminated in a dynamic community-based in Montenegro, a nation known for its beautiful landscapes and limited services, perfectly fitting the Montelibero ethos.

Tatiana emphasizes that the community is decentralized with fluid leadership, allowing individuals to take on roles naturally. This structure embodies the principles of voluntarism and autonomy that MonteLibero cherishes.

The Cultural Fabric of Monte Libera

Tatiana’s journey from Russia to the UK and eventually Montenegro is a testament to her adaptability and vision. Her leadership in the Monte Libero community illustrates a commitment to integrating diverse cultural elements and languages. About 85% of the community comprises Russian speakers, but it is a melting pot of individuals from various backgrounds, including English speakers and those from Germany and India.

Emily and Tatiana discuss the challenges and joys of creating a multi-generational, international community driven by shared values and a passion for libertarian principles. The Montelibero project is distinctive in that it offers flexibility—participants can be actively involved on-site in Montenegro or contribute to the community from anywhere in the world.

Bridging Modern Technology with Traditional Wisdom

In the pursuit of self-sustainability, MonteLibero encourages the integration of blockchain technology and decentralized finance. Tatiana shares how these tools are not merely buzzwords but are practical elements supporting the community’s growth—helping with fundraising, financial transactions, and governance.

The community’s toolkit includes a unique local currency (MTL token), facilitating economic interaction within the group and opening doors to new business ventures through platforms like MADIS. MonteLibero is carving out a path for a sustainable future by fostering an environment where innovative ideas are welcome.

Engaging with the Environment and Education

Tatiana’s enthusiasm for ecological sustainability resonates throughout the MonteLibero project. From permaculture initiatives to reforestation efforts in northern Montenegro, the community embraces the natural world as a partner rather than a resource to exploit. This holistic approach emphasizes the importance of resilience and self-sufficiency—a philosophy passed on to the community’s children through shared activities and educational opportunities.

Tatiana stresses the importance of children being actively involved in the community’s activities, ensuring they grow up with a profound understanding of their environment and community values.

Conclusion: The Future Is Now

As the conversation wraps up, Emily and Tatiana reflect on MonteLibero’s essence and role as a beacon for those seeking a new way of living. Tatiana advises individuals—especially those in midlife—to find or build a community that aligns with their values and to contribute their accumulated knowledge and passion to a more significant cause.

Monte Libera is a pioneering example of what intentional living can achieve, combining the best historical wisdom with forward-thinking technology. To learn more about the vibrant journeys reshaping our world, follow the Age of Reinvention podcast on your favourite platform and join the conversation on social media.

Until next time, keep reinventing, keep exploring, and embrace the journey that is uniquely yours.