The Path to Sustainable Living: New Models for Community and Independence
Or Sofer and Zuzana Martakova, visionaries behind FreeThem Company, are redefining sustainable living through self-sufficient, decentralized villages. Their work focuses on creating eco-villages that empower communities to thrive through freedom, innovation, and environmental harmony. Inspired by a passion for autonomy and sustainability, they are building models of resilient living that challenge traditional systems. With a mission to foster a healthier, more connected future, Or and Zuzana are proving that true freedom begins with reimagining how we live and interact with the world around us.
Join me, Emily Bron, on this episode of Age of Reinvention as we dive into the world of self-sufficient, decentralized villages with Or Sofer and Zuzana Martakova from FreeThem Company. We chat about their vision for sustainable eco-villages, the inspiration behind their work, and how they’re creating communities that thrive on Freedom and innovation. Don’t miss out on this insightful conversation and learn how new ways of living shape our future!
TIMESTAMPS:
02:01 Meet the Visionaries: Or Sofer and Zuzana Martakova
04:51 Understanding Decentralized Communities
12:22 The Philosophy Behind Freedom
15:40 Building Strong, Thriving Communities
33:36 Challenges and Future Plans
Listen to Part II of the podcast episode –
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5QCWTeRYn05ElxWQg9ilEs?si=fcc9db9bd43c494f
Listen to part I of the podcast episode here:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6UfRbzNIGQyC6mIrxXipqt, Watch the podcast episode here: Part 1- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq6WIAl9Z9Y and Part 2 – https://youtu.be/xn4yag24R6g?si=e8QJ-RrDuYcJ6fSA.
Emily Bron: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another enlightening episode of Age of Reinvention. Eco living, free cities, and intentional communities. I’m your host, Emily Bron, and I’m here today to guide you through the inspiring ideas and innovative living project shaping our future. Today, We are diving into the fascinating world of decentralized, self sufficient villages and towns with two remarkable guests from Free Them Company.
Joining us is Or Sofar, the visionary CEO committed to building these off grid sustainable eco villages and Zuzana Martakova, the passionate advocate for individual freedom and community connections who handles communication and community at Freedom, Or brings over 15 years of leadership experience managing industrial and real estate projects, founding successful businesses, and driving ecological sustainability.
Zuzana, with her deep passion for libertarian philosophy and community building, is dedicated to connecting like minded people and promoting freedom oriented communities. We will explore their journeys Discuss the philosophies guiding their work in life and learn how they envision a future where communities thrive harmoniously with nature and individual liberties.
So let’s welcome Or and Zuzana to the show.
Hello. Hi Zuzana. Hi Or. Hi Emily.
Or Sofer: Hello.
Emily Bron: Hi. I’m happy to see both of you in my studio. yes, I know Zuzana is speaking with us today from the magnificent Prague and or is in Barcelona.
By the way, both cities are my most lovely cities and they compete in terms of beauty, historical heritage, and culture in general.
But we are dreaming and speaking about future of living outside of the cities. And I will start asking with Or, okay?
Zuzana, if you feel that you can add some, valuable or additional point of view for the same question, please do not hesitate to do it. Just, raise your hand or do it anyway, but yes, but I believe it’s better to start, and ask particular questions because I’m dealing now with the two different brilliant people and each of you has your own history, own character and even before starting, questioning Or I believe that I need to start with some terminology to clarify to our followers
“ What the FreeThem company is about?” because when we speak about Decentralizations and now i’m reading from your website and you say we are creating freedom To decentralize ourselves from mainstream society, politics, and media.
And we wish to attract residents who want to do the same. Digital nomads, remote workers, homeschooling families, bitcoiners, anarcho capitalists, libertarians, so on. To create a strong, thriving community, all our future towns will be able to stand on their own and will most likely even offer some sources of independent energy, such as biogas to the outside world.
The foundation of freedom is individual freedom and privacy. We will use prefab materials for constructions, housing, and utilize the built to rent model, housing. And it is to be available for the rent just to preface of our conversation and Or as a CEO of FreeThem. Can you explain your vision for decentralized and self sufficient towns and what inspired this path for you?
Or Sofer: I think we all have learned how the impact of government on our life can be sometimes significant is one way to say it, but it, it can go to the negative side, as we’ve seen many times in the past, in the wars that is happening right now, and And obviously, with what happened with COVID, so I think that as individuals, I think each one of us felt this by himself, that the situation has to change.
We cannot be dependent 100 percent on. The decision decisions of politicians they’re good with talking about international relations and creating conflicts and stuff like that. And I think eventually as human being, what is common between 99 percent of us is that we want to live in peace, right?
We want to prosper. We want to take care of our families. There is a big vacuum there because we live in in a mindset that the people who are responsible for those things should be politicians because they run the countries. And and if we, if we let this continue I’m sure it can go even more south.
So that’s pretty much what drives me seeing all these things happening in the last I would say two decades of my life when I was more aware of what’s going on outside of my own bubble and it was cooking inside of me. For a long time and what happened in COVID actually gave me this maybe pushed me to the wall when when I had to shut down my business and I had to start something.
I knew I had to start something totally new. So it was a good opportunity for me in all senses, my personal life and what was happening in the world. to trigger an action. And yeah, so I, this is what drives me to start freedom.
Emily Bron: Thank you. Thank you. I can share with you. And by the way, I found a lot of commonalities between us that I started my international lifestyle consulting.
As idea and implementation exactly during the Covid lockdown in Canada, it was pretty severe and the first time in many years of my life, I was out of the work. Because actually, as a single mom with two children, I was always working contracts here and there. And I felt that there was something odd with this world.
At the beginning, I thought this world in Canada, it was too socialistic for me. But after then, I realized that there’s some things going around. And only during the COVID, when I’ve had time, And I thought something is going on and I started to look, in the internet and think and listen.
It’s totally torn me down. Many people actually awakened at this time, but they might went different direction. But I realized that now we are living in time of big political, economical, and social changes. And with knowledge of history, I knew when such things are happening. People are starting to relocate.
That’s why I decided to launch International Lifestyle Consulting to help people to find the matching countries it’s what I thought at the time regions to live, and lately I’m looking to the different projects about community because I understand the success of your location and actually future life, especially for people 50 plus.
of age and others as well. It’s to find your community because you need to create new social circle. You need actually to start your life afresh. I would say from zero sometimes in new country and sometimes without knowledge of the language. Culture, because you’re not local, you’re coming from the different world and the only community, and I was speaking about expat communities, I’m still speaking about expat communities or community of like minded people can help you because from my multi immigrational experience.
I always lived in between immigrants from different cultures, and I know how community is important.
Tell me, please, clarify when you say decentralized what do you mean? You will have your separate water supply, electricity supply, probably internet supply In what sense you decentralized from society around?
Or Sofer: So first we understand that since COVID something have changed remote working and making business communication online is legitimate right now worldwide. So we’re using this opportunity to decentralize. So basically we have we see an opportunity that has come has come to us by either by mistake or by plan.
I don’t know with the COVID. But it gave us the opportunity, which is, I think that if we don’t take this opportunity right now and get out of those busy centers, because this is what is causing us to centralize the whole economy if let’s say high, very high percentage of mMeaningful economy transactions are happening in inside cities and for decades, for centuries.
We are going to that direction. In this time, in the history. For the first time we are going. We can actually go to the opposite direction. And this is what we mean by using this opportunity to decentralize. So what we are doing is freedom is that we recognize the opportunity and then we provide all that we think society would need to make this shift to make it easier and more possible to, to more people.
And yeah, and by that we already, physically far away from that noise culture that is going crazy crime that is rising in cities cost of living, all these things that eventually taking out your freedom because you’re working to get yourself, Income to have, more and more freedom.
Eventually, this is the goal of most of us, right? To have the ability to buy and do whatever we want. But this is not helping us the system. So again we saw, we recognize that it’s a one in a lifetime, maybe opportunity before things go to the other way. And then, and just, we will see cities becoming more.
Gray, more insecure. And yeah, this is where it goes. So it’s now or never to change our destiny. And instead of ending up like in a science fiction, horror movie, where everything is dark and the buildings are 200 floors let’s spread let’s have, each one with his own his own a little bit of peace of land and peace of mind.
Because we need that to develop as mankind.
Emily Bron: Okay. It’s in a big sense, but in practical sense, speaking about communities community infrastructure. So you will rely on your own water. Electricity, internet and it’s all possible. In today’s.
Or Sofer: possible. In today’s. Yeah, we’re not going to have a satellite, our own satellite in space, maybe not at the beginning.
But we can use Starlink or something like that. Yeah. So we are still going to be dependent in some way in different spaces. service providers, but there are private service providers no government involved.
Emily Bron: It’s a very interesting concept and we will discuss it later because, we all wish to be independent from excessive government decisions and rules, but how it works out in reality, it’s not always like we plan, but I’m still have a question.
I know that Ayn Rand and Marcus Aurelius, known emperor and Stoic philosophers, inspire you. Let me read some famous quotes from Marcus Aurelius, because actually I like him much more than Ayn Rand, personally. And “ Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one. If it’s not right, do not do it.
If it’s not true, do not say it. Dwell on the beauty of life, watch the stars, and see yourself in the mirror. Running with them.”
SFor somehow I associate this quotes with you, or even I don’t know you enough. It’s how I see it till today. And my question to you, how have their philosophies of the people, really brilliant people of different times influenced your approach to personal life, business, and community building.
Or Sofer: Wow, that’s a very big question.
No, it’s okay. So you want to hear more about Marcus Aurelius, I think.
Emily Bron: No, how it’s influenced you, because we all product, as I say, of books we read in the past, of music, of people we met along the way. Life road of our own thinking. So I’m trying to learn more about who is Oor Sofer so fair with such a last name.
Or Sofer: name.
The reason I’m I feel I feel good about Marcus Aurelius and about stoicism is that their direction is towards peace of mind. So this is something that is personal for me. Each one chooses his own drug. Yeah. I think that at some point in our life we, after our crazy twenties, and exciting thirties at some point, we seek to get a peace of mind, right? It’s something that is it’s something that is personal. I wouldn’t say that it’s I think that the whole character that I have, everything that I’ve, that I’m made of is somehow, It’s all getting out to the world through the project, through what I do.
But those are many pieces and this project is not about me. It’s not about our software. It’s about it’s about all the people who had enough of the same thing and wants to build a new, freer life. So I’m not trying to shape the communities in the way I am. Or to my beliefs, I just want each one to leave and live, so I think that in terms of the philosophy, I think maybe Marcus Aurelius is not really the right example for freedom but yeah, this is just different perspectives to how we live together, how we manage things together, how we stay calm how we manage With no aggression yeah, this is where it comes from.
Emily Bron: Okay. My next question how in your vision, strong, thriving community would be possible. When we are speaking about the rental model in practice and residents, which might only temporarily live in one or as a community locations, because, To, to cement the community or to have community, you need to live for some time together.
You, your FreeThem model is rental. How are you going to work in yours?
Or Sofer: First, so we wanted to avoid the regular the regular community problem where everybody’s enjoying democracy and arguing all day. And eventually, breaking down those beautiful communities.
We’ve seen it for decades. At least with most of the eco village and those kinds of communities that are emerging individuals working together and emerging We, we saw that this is a weak point. We don’t, we wanted to avoid this thing. So we developed that model “the bill for rent”, so we can maintain the type of governance we agreed on with our residents because we are going to present to all our residents our it’s a contract or a set of principles of how we expect them to behave with each other. It’s nothing, too how would say it’s nothing too. In terms of in terms of hundreds of laws. No, we’re not going to that direction. We are focused on basically the relationship between one another our commit the commitments of ours, the operator to the resident and the resident To the place to the facilities.
Community is one of the weaknesses. One of the biggest I would just repeat to go back to where I started. One of the biggest weaknesses of communities as I see it is that model that. Each one is suddenly can, decide to do whatever he wants. And, oh, and we end up in a society again of either many rules or people who violate those rules.
So
Emily Bron: that’s why you don’t sell the homes
Or Sofer: Exactly.
Emily Bron: You don’t want people to be constantly in the place because we don’t know, you don’t know how it’s going to work with.
Or Sofer: No, we want them to be constantly in the place. We want them to stay long term. We are happy. We actually expect the communities to have at least 75 percent of the people to stay for long term.
It’s not it’s not just about short term. We’re just saying that, people can live together, but they don’t have the the ownership they, they can have in the future, but they don’t have the ownership on that particular house on that particular land. So they don’t really have the power to go fight with each other.
If one person is violating the rules of the community we can just ask him to leave.
Emily Bron: So you will work on a yearly rental model or monthly?
Or Sofer: There will be a short term option and a long term option so you can leave months, years, and one year and then renew. Maybe we’ll have an option for a long term for five years as well but we will have to inspect that after the first or second year.
Emily Bron: Yep. Sure, along the road, some corners will be clarified and shaped. And now I am going to citate Ayn Rand.
Beautiful Zuzana. Oh, Zuzana, do you want did you want to add something?
Zuzana Martakova: And no, I’m just excited to hear your Ayn Rand quotes.
Emily Bron: I didn’t start it yet. “Individual rights are not subject to a public vote.
A majority has no right to vote away the rights of minority. The political functions of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities and the smallest minority on earth is indivbidual”.
How does the governance model based on resident contract operate in FreeThem towns and what principles, actually you described some guide this contract. Because when I was listening to you, it’s again, it will be some minorities. In community, now we speak in particular communities, which might feel that they oppressed by majority of community even based on contract.
Like, how would you remediate such situation?
Or Sofer: How would you, how would that happen? Minorities within the community?
Emily Bron: Yeah. No, there is people who think this way and look, for example, even in libertarian communities, not even, people agree on like freedom principles, but when you go to the different, practical living together, people have millions of different opinions and it’s matter of life and especially when people start to live together in kind of some isolated location, isolated from others.
Some tensions might happen and some minority would not agree with what majority will impose on them. It’s how they can think. And they say, based on Ain Rand, we have our individual rights. Not to subject to the public vote of community.
Or Sofer: Yeah, of course. Of course not. Why do they need to? I don’t see any kind of scenario that that one group can oppress another group within freedom.
Emily Bron: It’s just not even oppressing. They don’t like, they don’t like this rule. This was the rule.
Or Sofer: For example, let’s be more precise because this is very general.
Emily Bron: Okay. For example, Zuzana likes heavy metal music and she put it on the full loud running and I would like to meditate at the same time with my meditation music.
And I’m not sure that you like homes, like with all the respect, I don’t know, fully isolated from the noise perspective, especially when we speak about, heavy rock music. And I say it’s not what I was agree with. I cannot live in such a noise. I came here outside of the city to meditate, with the nature, to be together with the nature, not to have this heavy rock.
Or Sofer: Yes. With Zuzana it’s a real problem.
Emily Bron: Probably. Sory in advance. No, I have resolution for Zuzana, but I would like to hear from you. Okay?
Or Sofer: Okay. So you mentioned you mentioned in your question isolation of the houses. So this is the first thing there should be a quality of materials in there.
And the ideas of having privacy and freedom is also built within the construction itself. So we’re taking this into consideration that we want people to listen. to high music and, but if they will have their windows closed, you wouldn’t hear anything. So this is something very serious in terms of the characteristic of construction that we do.
So this is one. The second thing we also built in distance, each house will have distance from the other only the affordable category or maybe student dorms or something like that will have a shared walls or something like that. So these two things. already helping the problem.
Now, the third I would do is to measure the level of decibels that, that is allowed maybe to give it some sort of a number to make sure that the Or to make it clear that above an X decibel that is arriving to getting to the other side, like Zuzana’s house or your house is, there should be a limit.
So this is something that we can do. But what I would suggest is that you go to Zuzana, or you just text her through the app and directly tell her that. And maybe you girls can, one of you can say, okay. Do your meditation at three and I will do my heavy rock heavy metal at five.
And it can work. This is what we expect because people eventually need to solve these little problems. We want, we don’t want to be like this is what we’re looking for a like minded people. So this problem should be solved easily, but if not, there is a common sense that we come with and obviously it’s leave and let live.
So if someone harms you and doesn’t let you leave he’s violating the rules, right?
Zuzana Martakova: But also if I may step in of course this is hopefully, nonviolent communication. And if, two parties do escalate it a little bit. Hopefully they’re able to talk to each other. And solve the issue peacefully.
However, if it does escalate a bit more, we will of course have dispute resolution in place. And we worked with some companies or have some companies in our eye to start working with. For, mediation of problems, of course, nonviolent communication is the dream, but it’s not always easy and not everybody is always capable of it.
And so should it get to the point where these two involved parties are just not working with each other at all we will have someone someone step in, of course, with their consent and solve the issue. And of course, if, one party keeps violating whatever it is over a long period of time, then it will most likely need to escalate a bit further.
But yeah, hopefully, peaceful dispute resolution works.
Emily Bron: Okay, I would just suggest to Zuzana to use her headphones. It’s my opinion. There’s plenty of options, I’m sure.
Zuzana Martakova: Yes.
Emily Bron: And how can you create a cohesive community which is based on Ayn Rand’s other quote : “ The first right on earth, It’s the right of the ego. Man’s first duty is to himself.”
And it sounds correct, but in community, it’s not. It might not work when we have a lot of egos. It’s
Or Sofer: Maybe I can help, with this. It’s very easy. I don’t know if you’ve been through a process of healing, right?
Many of us did maybe through COVID, maybe through whatever I’m talking about, healing your soul, right? Having bad habits. Seeing yourself not going into the right direction and then corecting yourself and going better the product that you produce at that time yourself, the self that you are improving is is coming out.
To, to the world, people get a better version of you, right? They probably get a less violent person, a person with more patient, a person with, so all these values are eventually helping if each individual see himself and he makes sure that he’s behaving in a way that is, is respectful.
So then we don’t have problems, don’t we? So instead of see, instead of impo pushing people to as a group, as a collective we, we know. The individual, if all the individuals are okay, the whole will be okay.
Emily Bron: Okay. And I really like the latest addition in the amenities of your renders for the future communities that you have community center with library, with a lot of books, including Ayn Rand and Mark Aurelius, but I believe that there will be more.
More books of different authors with different ideas. And by the way, the communication language is English. Yes. In all of your communities. And,
Or Sofer: Yes. Basically you’re allowed to speak any language you want, as long as someone understands you.
Emily Bron: No, but the common communication language for even contacts for people, because I believe you want to attract people from different cultures, from different language roots, and, but people who speak English, or you might accept like some group of people from other countries, like we need to communicate with each other, even we are from different countries.
Am I corect?
How do you see this?
Or Sofer: Yes, of course. I think that most people that travel and do relocation happen to cross through English at some point. But yeah, there are many Spanish speaker, French speakers, Germans that can speak Germans within themselves. No,
Emily Bron: I understand, but there is a refugees. There’s a lot of refugees over the last year.
Group of people who are really relocating out of the need, like war or some disaster in their country. And they might come with a group, families, why not?
Or Sofer: And it’s something that we need to, if a group like that is something we were we’re going to tackle. Cool. Situation like that, but it’s very customized.
It’s very customized to the situation. We cannot say in general, every group that will come in, we will sort it out. It’s something that needs to be built, implemented for the first time and then tested.
Emily Bron: So you will have some kind of eligibility process, questionnaire. Just, even for these people who come with the group to feel comfortable because they coming with the hope, to find place to live and people who are living there already thinking about the same, so it will be still some kind of filter out situation of what kind of people would be accepted.
Because, again, speaking about the rental, and I understand there are rules written but people are people and they’re looking for places to live.
Or Sofer: Yes. But yeah, I think I think that this we always say that the free market in free market the market knows what he wants.
He pays with his feet. So we are, we have our unique philosophy it’s not very, it’s not a very common project. So I believe we will attract people that are looking for something similar in case not, they will probably won’t enjoy, or maybe they will look for something that is more being obligated to work together in the farming.
They will not find obligations in freedom. This is why it calls freedom. But there are many communities that can. It’s just a different concept.
Emily Bron: Okay. Thank you. Or as someone who enjoys nature, chess, and football. Does this interest play some role in your professional life, or influencing your decision making, or maybe creativity somehow?
Or Sofer: Yes, of course. Chess is always important. I wish I had started earlier. But yeah, chess is fantastic to whatever you do in life. It helps you understand that there is more than one step to, to calculate, which is important. And yeah, walking in nature is renewing brain cells getting out.
It’s nice. I’m lucky to live by nature and the last few years I stay very close to nature. And yeah, it’s Of course, it also affected the way when in this sense, maybe, yes, I brought myself into there, but my love to nature, bringing the project also close to the nature, maybe something that is, very close to me and coming from me and from Zuzana too.
Emily Bron: But where you were born I just don’t know, in a city or some place outside and raised.
Or Sofer: I was born and raised in the suburbs of Tel Aviv. And it’s not suburbs like American suburbs. It’s not, it wasn’t. Wasn’t that busy? So you would feel like you’re in a little town, basically. The houses I remember we, we used to have it was a single family, but we never had walls between the houses.
So you could actually
Or Sofer: So this place is this place was was like a little it was like a little town at that time when I was, when I grew up. And then it became like the center of the high tech industry. And, regardless of the industry which is great, we’re developing, it’s great. I have nothing against it. people have changed.
We used to have, as I said, single family houses. The houses are still there. It’s all pretty much the same. The only difference that they have walls between them and very big walls. And so you don’t really, even if you are outside of the city, you don’t have that space to look into to get out of the window or to go to the street or to go to whatever road and to see, to see forward, horizon this, it became crowded.
So yeah, I miss that. I miss that. It was fun to come back from school or even to run from the kindergarten all the way home without without big risks.
Emily Bron: Unfortunately, it’s changing in many places of the world. But thanks to the FreeThem and people who are leading these projects, we feel that there will be alternatives.
But still, what challenges do you foresee in creating and maintaining self sufficient and sustainable villages, and how do you plan to address them? And I will give you example, which I was thinking about. For example, you are building now, as far as I know, your first project in Portugal. And actually, I’m curious to know about other projects in different countries, but we’ll, let’s start from Portugal.
For example, the future or current socialistic, in my view, government in Portugal might interfere with some aspects of the project. of freedom community work or life, or impose some taxation, even though the initial contract you probably signed with local government was agreement that they will not do it.
But they do it after a couple of years.
Or Sofer: This is why we start in our first location or, and we are going to continue like that in countries that are stable. They have some sort of law in there that it’s not a total chaos. So if a government municipality will break their contract good luck. They we’re all facing the same law.
And I don’t think, I don’t see this as a problem. I know that Portugal, just like many other countries, they need help to develop the rural areas or semi rural areas. They need us and companies like us. And in terms of taxes the, people think that governments or many people that are, or maybe the government is transforming this information to us that they always need.
More taxes means more revenue to the government but, many people understand that when you reduce the taxes of many people, I’m sure all of them understand that when you reduce the taxes, you actually create more prosperity, more jobs, more people get involved, people spend more, they can save more and spend more, and the economy is even healthier.
Emily Bron: There it is. But in practice, I see like over the last year, only the taxes is going up in Spain, in Portugal, actually in many countries. And let’s be open. They’re all leaning left and governments cannot Probably balance their balance sheet. And so what they do, they impose taxes. They can name it different way.
Levy is like green tax. It’s what we have in Canada or whatever. But at the end of the day, it’s we hope that they would understand that it’s better to give people opportunity to develop businesses, to, to enjoy their life and give back to the society. Country, but sometimes it’s not going according to our understanding.
Or Sofer: Yes. Look, there are some things we can control. There are some things we cannot control. Controlling the taxes how much taxes people will pay? No, no
Emily Bron: taxes, regulations. Like I’m speaking about general involvement in the life of community. They. They see there’s prosperous community, like it’s my scenario, with industrial, some, good people, and they you can milk them, you can get more from them.
Okay, now they’re working, why not to impose green tax or biogas tax or some other tax or put them in the condition. Some local crazy mayor of the. I don’t know, by the way, where you’re located now in Portugal, but it’s a scenario which might be not in Portugal only.
Or Sofer: Again matter of measuring the risk if we have an agreement with the government regarding a particular area, and as I said, governments are looking to develop those areas.
In general, there are grants. They are incentives. They’re paying people money to move to these areas. So there is no conflict of interest here. If you have a particular example that they can, that they would for that, they would come over and. Our residents, but please let me know.
That would be Honduras,
Zuzana Martakova: right?
Emily Bron: No, I was thinking about Honduras as a kind of a real life example with really good projects that were launched and provided good results, like visible for local people. And
Zuzana Martakova: yeah, but that’s why we’re looking, like Or said a while ago, this is why we look at economically stable countries.
at least to a certain extent for the time being and not places similar to Honduras. that are just a little less stable, perhaps, compared to maybe our European, whatever, Western world standards.
Emily Bron: Okay. Thank you. So building in a rural or semi rural locations present unique opportunities and challenges.
How do you select these locations and what criteria are most important to you? In your decision making process, you already touch it. And in what countries and regions are you planning to build freezing eco villages?
Or Sofer: Okay. Things that must be on that land is access to water. We need sun.
Sun is something that is vital for the systems and for us, for the individual and place that we want to live in, right? That people want to live. To see the sun. I would say that the location is important in terms of distance to airports. We want to be a maximum 90 minutes from an airport. People can keep going with their lives, keep running with their, whatever they do, if they need to fly and all that, so it would be accessible and fast close to the highway public transportation close to nature, of course, place with looking with less crime with less then with no danger of fires.
There are really many little characteristics. But this is in general, I would say one more thing. Maybe a place that, you know, when a kind of a home that when you wake up or that you don’t need a vacation from. Okay. That you, when you wake up, you get out of your house and you have a nice view that I hope I’m managing to, to, yeah, to.
Emily Bron: So what countries in your bucket list in this regard?
Or Sofer: So we’re thinking about, of course, we have Portugal now quite advanced we are thinking about Texas in, in, in the U S. We’re thinking about some places in Central America, not many places, but some places. Yeah, as we said, places that are fairly safe and that we can, that we won’t need to be in any kind of political risk or military risk or
Emily Bron: not Spain where you are now.
Or Sofer: It may be something that I will add to this because Spain is a great example. Spain has all the fantastic conditions, also land price and that and all that. But Unfortunately, in Spain, homeschooling is illegal, and homeschooling is a very strong part of decentralizing yourself. We will have people that will use homeschooling for their kids, and just as you mentioned before, so the government will not come in and look for troubles, we avoid that.
So we just avoid these problems.
Emily Bron: Okay. So very interesting about Central America. I’m bullish, actually, to Latin America in the biggest sense. And I know there’s a lot of dynamics happening over there. I don’t know it’s El Salvador or something. What do you mean by Central America? But I understand it’s not Honduras. I
Or Sofer: think it will be relevant when we get close to
Emily Bron: this stage and okay.
Speaking about more practical when your first community in Portugal can be visited, we’ll be open the door for the first rentals.
Or Sofer: So we’re hoping to purchase the land in the first quarter of next year. And one year after that, plus minus, we can have people living there. So we’re looking at the beginning of 26, end of 25, beginning of 26.
Emily Bron: It can be faster,
Or Sofer: but
Emily Bron: What’s the maximum? How many people in village? What’s the optimum for your village?
Or Sofer: We want to have about 300 homes in our communities.
Emily Bron: 300 homes, so it can be up to 1, 000 people living?
Or Sofer: Less, less, about 700, 800 maximum. Yes.
Emily Bron: No, but you speak about families. So it was calculating with children.
Or Sofer: I don’t know, but there are many studios and singles and yeah, it’s not all families.
Emily Bron: Okay. So it’s too early to speak now about rental price. The range, you probably don’t know, or you budgeting it because again, a lot of things. Might be open and close based on what will be price rental price for people.
How affordable to be for what kind of property for rentals?
Or Sofer: Yes, we can say we can give some idea. We’re looking at the studio. Let’s say a studio for one person with Let’s say about 30, 30 something square meter. We cost about 400 euros per month. So we are starting from that pretty much 350, 400.
all the way to the luxury to the big size luxury category of 3000, 4000 years per month. So we have four, about three or four levels of each category, three or four sizes of each category. And in total, we have three category, the affordable, the elegant, what we call and the luxury one.
So from tiny homes
Emily Bron: to the kind of villas, we would say.
Or Sofer: Exactly. Exactly. From co housing, I would say, even a step back from a, yeah.
Emily Bron: And community center and some communal amenities for each of participants. And I noticed that almost all of them are on rental based as well. To use a nursery or to use beehive or like people need to pay.
Or Sofer: Correct? Yes, of course. If someone wants to have it in his home and to produce his own honey, yeah, of course, the equipment costs money and maintenance and yeah.
Emily Bron: Okay, so Freedom as a company or I would say on this stage as a property management company would be responsible for the amenities like for all property to run properly.
All and order and community building. But people are renting particular homes or rooms will be will be renting if they wish some properties not properties, amenities. And what about the Greek cultures that you promote is one of the activities like orchards or some land.
It will be part of day to day living for the renters. So it will be some activities from freedom kind of industrial production of the fruit and vegetables, which is very important because For example, I don’t want to go every time to the city and you will not, we will not have a car and to drive, to buy some day to day produce things.
You probably even will have some small store on the premises because people need to. To have all necessities. Yes.
Or Sofer: Yes. So for that we will give you the option of both growing your own food or purchasing on site from your neighbors or from that particular shop that you mentioned. So you can get on top of the rent price.
You can also rent a piece of land. If you want we have many plus that can be used for agriculture. We will help you organize it and make it comfortable to start working on it. Another thing we have in terms of you doing yourself is having an aquaponic system next to your home. It’s something very easy to operate and it brings you fish and vegetables.
No, the only, maybe a little, the only maybe a little Hustle is to is to seed the plants and get them to a starter to tiny plants. This is something we can do as Freedom and sell it for a few cents, just a little, the plant when it’s a baby. And then people can have that in their hydroponics or aquaponics.
Another thing we’re going to do is. We’re going to enable and maybe through a collaboration or through freedom staff to have a membership for the farm for vegetables, because fruits depends on the land. We usually fruit is a longer process, right? You should have trees before that.
Some of them needs to be years ahead. But in terms of vegetables, another solution is to get like a membership fee, something like 30 euros per month. And then you you can go to that particular land and everything will be there taken care of by our staff. So everything will be growing you would just go there, pick whatever you want yourself and you don’t need to pay anything because you paid the membership and you take as much as you need.
Emily Bron: So there will be people in the community who are working actually on this. Land on this orchard producing all this it would be their daily work Job, yes because I’m interested about employment opportunities as well in these communities because I believe people need to work In decentralized communities as well and just obviously balance of work and life It’s up to every person and family but in the sense of purpose, and I believe in purpose in life work is giving the satisfaction and giving actually things to do during the day.
So what kind of other professionals you would you would need, I would say, not just attract and remote workers. I understand, yes, but to maintain even such community, you need people of different skills.
Or Sofer: Yes, we have gardeners, we have people with for administration, we have we’ll have community managers maintenance people.
Yeah this quite a lot of people on board, I think.
At the same time, in one shift, there should be around 30 people, if I’m not mistaken, according to our calculations.
Emily Bron: And they might live in the community, or they might be local and going to work here, no? No,
Or Sofer: they will live inside the community, for sure.
Emily Bron: Okay, so it would be a special contract with them, people who are living and working for the community needs.
Or Sofer: Of course, it’s like a job, like any other job, there’s no voluntary yeah, the job, they get paid. And we, our goal is to help solving another problem we have in society. As you mentioned before, with all the work that is going on we were our You know, after we saw what happened in Ukraine and later on Israel Palestine and the whole world is going crazy.
We thought that it could be nice to give war refugees an opportunity in FreeThem, and to show the world that the free market can also solve social problems. We were thinking that maybe we can help A group of people coming from those areas to rebuild themselves in freedom to maybe working freedom 34 hours per day in return for new homes for them and their family.
Of course, each individual case is different. But yeah, work a little bit there, maybe in the around the maintenance around the hospitality part, but also be exposed to opportunities from the outside world, because the goal is that they will not work for freedom all their lives, right? I would see them working for freedom for six months or maybe one year of kind of recovery.
And then we would love to see them just Just like I would like to see my kids one day, when I will have ones flying away, finding their own way, opening their own businesses, starting their own farm or whatever they want to start, that would be great.
Emily Bron: I believe working with these groups, you would need to have psychologists inside because based on my traveling to Ukraine this summer, I visited Ukraine and I understand what’s happening in Israel.
People are traumatized by all the events and it’s a big problem, bigger than I thought. about and people need help. Obviously, they need shelter. They need to work but the longer war is happening the more trauma they get young and even these people who are run away. Or like refugees, I’m speaking about Ukrainian refugees, they might be better off, but yes it’s not easy and I commend you for thinking about it and doing it because it’s it’s very important.
But yes, you mentioned volunteerism, actually, in my sense that people will not work for free because for me being the Soviet child and after then student, I know that volunteer work and actually the same here in the West when you need to work your free hours for the good of community, as they say.
And we are the children and students were working on agriculture, helping to get them. Produce back to because nobody was working. It was not enough hands to work in agriculture. And even everyone from, scientists to worker, maybe on some industry, when September, October were coming, we were sent to work to do this voluntary work and other type of works, especially cleaning cities because they were dirty and they couldn’t not organize the work.
And I know that term as voluntarism when they hear it, it’s for me, it’s resembles this kind of work. What do you mean? And I know that libertarians like to use this word. What do you mean by voluntarism?
Or Sofer: I didn’t put it as any. I think what they mean, what what they’re trying to say with volunteerism is that you don’t do it when someone pushes you to do it, you do it because you want to do it. But yeah, I think before that, the question was more economical. So this is why I responded in that way.
Maybe Zuzana would like to add. Or explain that.
Zuzana Martakova: I don’t know that I have anything to say right now. But I understand, Emily, maybe you referred to voluntaryism as like that school of thought, kinda. Versus this voluntary work with refugees that Or has been No,
Emily Bron: the government imposed on us.
Government on local communities is saying, Look, you need to give your share to the community. Let’s work. Let’s help community or city or country or motherland. Let’s help motherland with with, no, but otherwise we will be hungry. Come on.
Zuzana Martakova: Yeah, no we’re not this big brother kind of thing.
We’re definitely all about, voluntary cooperation and, even going back to the resident contracts that or spoke about a while ago. Obviously, anyone who will want to live in our town will have to, enter into the contract, sign it and abide by it, will have to, but, voluntarily, if you want to live there, then you agree to these terms and you’re okay with them.
And this is true, even this case, but then the people will come there, these, refugees will come to freedom in a pursuit of a safer life. I think that is, possibly the most important factor for people like this the safety, security, and just like you said possibly even some, psychological or mental help because obviously the trauma that arises from things like this is It’s tragic, really, it’s immense and it’s it affects you for your, really entire life unless it’s properly taken care of and there’s no easy feet.
So really the safety and the security of the people and then the jobs that they will go on doing are any maintenance jobs or anything that is relevant to just keeping Freedom running. But again, we’re not forcing anyone to do it. Everybody will have to come on a voluntary basis,
Or Sofer: we’re not going to tell everyone, Hey guys, it’s time to clean the town. Everybody get out on Saturday and start cleaning the town together. this is not, we’re not going there.
Emily Bron: Okay, yeah, it’s just my memories from the Soviet childhood and no, I understand sometimes no, and by the way I’m not overthinking that it was so bad because like I believe that as a Team player, I’m much better because of my childhood, rather than people coming from Western society, when everyone is special, everyone is individual.
I don’t have problem if I think that it’s correct to work and help others. I never think about money, because I was raised this way, but it’s a different volunteerism.
Zuzana Martakova: There are similarities, of course. There’s, there’s always some corelation. However, is the incentives and the foundations, the roots of it all that really make up the entire difference between these approaches, right?
One is forced and you have to do it. And if you will, then, you will bear the repercussions. However, here, if you don’t want to do it, You simply don’t have to live there or one way or another in a peaceful way, you will be exited from the community, but again, nobody’s forcing you into doing anything under the threat of imprisonment or worse.
Emily Bron: Just, no, to be excluded in your particular case. No, okay it’s. And last question to torture you. Where do you see freedom and actually the concept of free cities in the next decade?
Or Sofer: think Zuzana wants to take it. I
Zuzana Martakova: think it was directed to you, Or.
Or Sofer: Okay tough question. There’s not much we can, there’s not much security that we can give into the idea of free cities. It’s not my job to do freedom.
Emily Bron: Okay. You can speak about FreeThem, your Company.
Okay. I hope that you are very ambitious. Like I, I read on your website that till 2034, we will have. 100 villages, cities all over the world. It’s actually what provide me with the idea to ask this question, but you can ask respond, whatever you think now.
Or Sofer: So I think this big statement is coming to say that there’s more than just the three of us or a hundred to 200 people that are in this, I don’t want to say war, but that are aware of this struggle and feeling this struggle and want to have a change in their lives and want to take a little bit more control over their lives.
so it’s not about the dozens or the hundreds. It’s worldwide. I believe there are hundreds of thousands seeking for this thing. So if we will manage ourselves to build this a hundred ones, it’s a technical question. It’s a question of funding and all that, but it’s mainly to say that I think this is the future.
This is where we should go. I know that it might sound a bit similar to what the EU is planning for us or what the UN is planning for us to, to isolate us into small communities. This is not the same. And to us not to have any kind of property, we are looking at what they do and what they propose and we do it in a different way.
So I suggest also to people to when they read our materials. When they read about us, to pay attention to those differences that we are not a political organization. We are not willing to, we’re not the followers. We’re not going against any stream, but we are paving our own way.
Emily Bron: Thank you very much.
Or Sofer: And yeah so if there is a space, yes, there is a space for a hundred more or 200 or 5, 000 more. For sure, there is enough people who want that.
Emily Bron: Yeah, just some people actually. I was looking around in 2021 thinking if I get to this idea, so probably there are some other people around because I was thinking like, okay, there is a lot of people around why, but nobody was speaking around me.
And I started to look on the internet and and yes, I believe that it’s a hard way to be first, like pioneer, but it’s. Really, it’s a noble way, because people sometimes waiting for the leaders to show the way, to the first group, to carve this path, and others will follow. At least we wish this way.
Thank you, Or, and you are still with us, and Susanna, Zuzana, how do you prefer?
Zuzana Martakova: Zuzana is fine. However you want, really. It’s a sharp Z in Czech, but it’s a little easier to slide it with the S as in Zuzana in English.
Emily Bron: Okay. I thought that you’re Slovakian, but doesn’t matter. And yes.
Can you start your answers explaining the core motivation behind FreeThem for you, city girl from Prague. What inspired you to work on creating decentralized self sufficient towns and small community living?
Zuzana Martakova: What didn’t inspire me, truth be told when I learned about FreeThem about a year and a half or so ago I was drawn to the ideas behind it immediately because this is exactly what I want for myself.
This is exactly where I want to live. It’s you called me a city girl and I don’t know if I like it. I was born in Prague and I’ve lived here for not all of my life, but for the majority of my life.
Emily Bron: Nothing to be ashamed of. It’s very valuable experience.
Zuzana Martakova: No, of course. Of course. I love it. It’s.
It’s a beautiful city. Obviously my family is here, which is a huge thing in my life. However, just like Or was talking about this a while ago, I’m very drawn to nature and really I travel to nature, whether that’s on the weekends or during the week or for a vacation, any chance I get pretty much, obviously we have countless studies on the benefits of being surrounded by nature, by being in the sun and everything, but, you We don’t really need the studies.
You just feel it in yourself and on yourself. But yeah, it’s just being drawn to nature and not being so suffocated by the city because, ever since 2020, obviously, when the city literally locked us down, they closed, outdoor gyms. It was basically illegal to go for a walk in the park and stuff like that.
It’s just, it’s so absurd to think back about it. But it’s also really scary in a way, that somebody actually has that power over you. They most likely always will. But again, it’s about decentralizing yourself in a way as far as possible so that you limit. They’re whoever they are, there are chances of locking you in.
And so again, is the decentralization from, all this noise that we have, and I don’t mean noise in terms of cars and the pollution of it, but the noise and the pollution of the media, the politicians, exactly what we mentioned on the website, of course just this disturbance, these disturbances that are always at the back of your mind because, we have, you have billboards, you have the media shouting at you, whether you want it or not.
And it’s getting into your brain anyway, it’s getting into your subconscious mind. And rather than, meditating for hours a day and just consciously trying to eliminate everything, you can just remove yourself from it and put yourself somewhere where it’s a little bit more green, a little bit more naturey, a little bit more peaceful and quiet and hopefully nobody’s blasting, heavy metal at 10pm.
I know I won’t. And you just get to live your life in a way that really suits you the most. And obviously you can do this anywhere in the world. It’s really, it’s all in the head. But there are places that make it possibly a little easier. And freedom is one of these. Again, as soon as I learned about freedom, I knew that this is exactly what I want for myself and I reached out to Or immediately and the rest is history.
Here we are.
Emily Bron: Great. Great to know. What were your favorite authors of books in your formative years? Or maybe later on as well?
Zuzana Martakova: I think we’re on in our formative years. It’s our entire life, right? We never stop learning.
Emily Bron: Absolutely. But
Zuzana Martakova: yeah, Ayn Rand is for sure one of the major ones. I read Atlas Shrugged when I was 18.
So that’s a very, forming age still. And the book changed my life, honestly. It really did. I’ve been lucky enough to grow up in a family. I was born into the Czech into the free Czech Republic, actually. Same. Same. Unlike my sister, who was still born in a communist, a socialist country, but it’s all the same.
But I’ve been lucky enough to actually grow up in a family, thanks to my parents, who have always been freedom ish oriented, because obviously then they spent several decades of their life in a communist regime. Luckily, they didn’t get suffocated by it. And so they’ve always leaned towards we’re more freedom in our private lives as well as in the overall economy of the country.
And so this has been my upbringing. And obviously, as a child, you don’t really question these things, you just take them on, you absorb them. And so I’ve always leans towards, these ideals or values or whatever. But then when I read Atlas, it really just helped me to frame everything to put a specific name on it.
And to just conceptualize it. So Ayn Rand has definitely been a very influential person in my readings. But there are obviously Who else? Who else? Yeah. Who else? There’ve been many more. Right now, for the first time Bitcoin Standard, of course by Safety and Amos.
I don’t know if I’m saying that name correctly, honestly. Obviously, I’ve been in Bitcoin for several years now, and that is another concept or whatever we want to call it that is that has the potential of, forming you in many new ways as well. And so I’ve been involved in that for quite a while now.
But again, this book, as much as It’s actually not so much about Bitcoin. I haven’t finished reading it yet, but I’m like halfway through and Bitcoin has been mentioned like twice or three times. Can you name
Emily Bron: the book again? Bitcoin Standard. Huh.
Zuzana Martakova: But it’s just the way that it describes history, our monetary systems in a very different light than what we have been taught, in schools it’s been also very influential and and very very educational in a way.
But yeah, to be honest, ever since I read Atlas back when I was 18 I’ve stuck to reading Ayn Rand’s and, other objectivist authors. Leonard Picoff has actually written, and he’s still around he wrote a book Loving Life, which is a very short, like a hundred page book also about objectivist, frameworks and principles.
And it’s very straightforward. Obviously Atlas, you have the thousand pages with such an epic story, but these derived books from it are just, it just helps you help you conceptualize it maybe a little bit more. So this book’s perhaps, this book perhaps hasn’t been that formative in a way, but it’s still been very influential in just helping to frame it in a way that makes sense for me.
Emily Bron: Maybe because in my eighteens, I was reading Soviet dissidents and out of this kind, and I get to the Ayn Rand around, being around 40, and she didn’t affect me so much as you, and with all respect okay.
Zuzana Martakova: Our prefrontal cortis. It’s keep developing until we’re like 25 or 30 almost it’s just the absorption of information in this age it’s different obviously than in our later years, neuroplasticity, it never stops.
Emily Bron: Absolutely. Absolutely. Maybe I need to go back to her to read again, but as a personality, like I’m not close to her as a person. And for me by the way, it’s very important who is the person who was writing it and how he reflect. No, she reflected her values in her life, so it’s okay , but it’s not mine, but it’s okay.
She’s really brilliant author, would not argue. And Zuzana you’ve studied libertarian philosophy and free enterprise extensively. Like I didn’t understand what exactly degree, like what was the name of your studies? And in my understanding free enterprise is individualism. How do this Ideas and we were speaking a little bit about it manifest in your approach to community building where cooperation and teamwork are often more important in my view.
Zuzana Martakova: Sure however, what is a team made up of? Individuals. I think this is also why plenty of these eco villages as Or mentioned also fail is also because they put too much emphasis on the overall community because we want everything, everyone to be happy and kumbaya and thriving and everybody loving each other.
But again, the community is made up of individuals. And as you quoted Ayn Rand several minutes ago, the smallest minority on earth is the individual, regardless of the race of the sex of the, I don’t know, political views of religions, whatever, it’s just the individual. There is no there is no other distinction that we need to make.
And unless you skip focusing on the individual and go directly to the team level or the group level, then you’re skipping a really important milestone in the journey. And it will most likely the tree or whatever we’re building will most likely falter along the way. sooner or later. Whereas if you put the emphasis on the individual and every single individual, again, through, living and letting live, respecting everyone’s boundaries through the non aggression principle, not engaging in force, whether that’s, not physical, but even again, back to non violent communication, stuff like this.
If you’re really emphasize the individual, you are building really strong roots for the entire tree, meaning the community to actually thrive. And so I understand, I think it’s really also important in terms of individuals, where you actually come from, because I know, me in the Western world compared to someone who grew up in the Eastern world, or maybe somewhere in Asia, or obviously our mindset will be very different.
I think the cultures are just, form you very differently. And there is something to, to each their own, of course. But for me because of this and because of my studies you cannot skip the individual it’s every one of us is on their own, ultimately you start your life on your own and you end your life on your own, obviously you build your community along the way you build your personal relationships, you build a bigger community in your job, in your whatever, in your hobbies.
And then you become a part of an even larger community depending on where you live. But ultimately you’re always on your own. And so just strengthening your own spirits and having them strengthened by the community where you find yourself, is to me the way to success and to long lasting success.
Emily Bron: Thank you. You already answered my three following questions. Okay. Good as to you. Okay would you have the piano in the community center?
Zuzana Martakova: Yes, I’m trying to convince Or to get me a Steinway piano.
Emily Bron: Oh, Steinway. We’ll see about
Zuzana Martakova: that.
Emily Bron: But
Zuzana Martakova: I do I do love playing Rachmaninoff. He’s my favorite, my all time favorite.
Emily Bron: Oh, it’s my next question. What music by what composers do you like to play?
Zuzana Martakova: Yeah, I play classical piano. But really these he’s basically a modern Composer, right? Back in the late 19th century and he passed 1947, I believe, or something like that. I actually started playing Rachmaninov because I started playing piano when I was six very early.
This is actually, I think, my earliest memory from life. Sitting on my mom’s lap and she was trying to convince me to start playing. And I didn’t really want to, but then I did. And I’m really grateful for that because the piano, any musical instrument is just such a beautiful outlet for the soul to let yourself roam freely, but also, the discipline that comes with it.
Because obviously if you want to get anywhere, you have to be consistent, just like with anything else. So those are some important lessons that piano has. Definitely taught me in my early years of life. But I first started playing Rachmaninov enough, I think when I was around 13, 14. I started with this C Sharp major of course, but his produce, it’s
Emily Bron:It is very advanced music.
I know because I learned music as well, reman enough. It’s not for beginner. It’s not
Zuzana Martakova: Easy’s. No.
Emily Bron: Yeah,
Zuzana Martakova: it’s not easy. But to me, because I am a metalhead and I really enjoy heavy music. To me, Rachmaninoff together with Bach are really the godfathers of metal. And obviously there have been many before them, but Bach, just how revolutionary he was during his time, and then Rachmaninoff Way later.
He was a dark soul. Obviously, he was born I don’t remember. Do you know where he was born?
Emily Bron: Russian, Russian. Yes, yeah, of
Zuzana Martakova: course. I don’t remember the specific place, but I think it’s just these big Russian composers, authors, and just these big Russian personalities.
They’re a little different. And he was dark and he was, just like heavy in his emotions and obviously it translates into his music and it brings me great joy to be able to play some of his preludes specifically.
Emily Bron: For me he’s not dark, he’s deep and by the way, i understand that Bach is a absolute harmony. It’s a light. And this one is a deep as actually it’s my two lovely composers as well. Okay. I would say this is life as well. Especially if you will get Stanway, to the community, why not? It will. Why not? Or is not convinced yet, I see.
Sustainability is significant focus for freedom. Can you elaborate a little bit on high tech or other amenities and systems you implement? in your community to achieve energy, food and water self sufficiency. I would like to give people some more, maybe even to repeat, but vision of what the community will be about.
Zuzana Martakova: Yeah, I think we’ve touched up on most of these. But so sustainability and self sufficiency go hand in hand, right? One way or another. And obviously, we want to make all of our towns as sustainable. through, all the levels through every factor in a way as possible. But, in terms of self sufficiency we really do cover food.
We cover water just like Orsa that we don’t really look at properties that don’t even have natural sources of water. But obviously those that do have and those that we do look at the water actually has to be filtered. We’re looking at, obviously filtering rainwater as well as what do you call this?
Or Sofer: Aquifer.
Zuzana Martakova: Sorry?
Or Sofer: Aquifer. The underwater.
Zuzana Martakova: Sure. That’s not what I was going to say, but yeah.
Or Sofer: Oh, I’m sorry.
Zuzana Martakova: Extracting humidity from the air, that’s where I was going. Yes, Yes, gray water and black water recycling that Or talked about. In terms of the food, we have the farming spaces, both indoor and outdoor with the aquaponics, hydroponic systems and more.
And in terms of the energy, In terms of the entire grid for the city or for the town, rather we’ll be able to operate all of this ourselves, which again helps with obviously the sustainable aspects of it all. We’re just making sure that it’s all long lasting and provides everything that we need and again, we might be able to make in terms of the biogas specifically, for instance, we might be able to actually make more of that and sell it to, the neighboring towns or communities that are nearby us.
So obviously just supporting sustainability in a way through that as well.
Emily Bron: How you plan to have so much biogas, by the way, just to support others from what sources from this fishing, from what?
Or Sofer: I think what Zuzana was trying to say that we can give the service of sewage management, right?
Blackwater treatment, as it’s called. We can offer this service and then enjoy the biogas that comes out of it for ourselves, for the residents, for heating or for getting the cost down because we produce energy from that. So the service we can give is maybe give allow neighboring towns, it depends on the site, but many of these rural sites do not have a proper sewage system.
They have a septic tank. And then they feel them and they dig another one to dig another. So if we can, in one of the cases that we checked, we could actually connect to the neighboring town and get their switch to our facility and then actually sell them the service. And this is something very interesting in terms of this power shifting, because as we are depending on them all the time, now it’s a different, if they’re, I’m not saying that that we’re going to use these or.
In terms of power but there must be a place, a higher place for negotiation if they provide us a a road or some other kind of educational service and we provide them another kind of service that there is, it’s becoming like an interesting relationship here because we are also gaining some power.
Emily Bron: And one more question to you, to both of you. Did you already specify the place for the first community that will be near the Tamar? Whatever the city, I know.
Or Sofer: No we didn’t specify. We have a few lands that are. Great to our requirements if well, when you specify it doesn’t mean that we are it’s hard to explain.
So I will try. So we did the process a little deeper process. Of course, you search for different lands and then you go deeper and see what suits. So we did that. We also met some municipalities, some mayors in Portugal, but until we buy the land, until the last moment that we actually purchased the land, I wouldn’t like to say where it is.
I can say in general, I can say in general that it’s central Portugal, not too far from Lisbon. Yeah, that’s what we can say right now.
Emily Bron: And I understand the second option it’s Azores Island, yes? Still Portugal, but little bit autonomous region.
Or Sofer: Azores will always remain an option until we make it.
It’s not either this or that. Azores is a beautiful place and fantastic location between the U. S. and Portugal. So there are some difficulties to build there a project like we want the lands are not big enough and they’re not entitled for this kind of project. One of the real estate people there told me that in, in, in Azores, the cows are much more important than a human.
Okay. For now we will see in the future. We’re still we’re still searching for something within. So
Emily Bron: maybe you will do cattle farming, like to serve cattle and they will provide you. I don’t think they like
Or Sofer: it. I think they like to have their cows like on the mountain, beautiful there with the view.
It’s more like for decoration cows, not productive.
Emily Bron: I see. Oh, you mentioned Prefab materials for construction and as far as I remember something from bamboo or something like for me, it was very exotic and I’m just, I understand that there are some advantages to use this materials in terms of cost efficiency if it’s a local.
It’s my first question what kind of materials and how will these materials behave in the climate of Portugal? Say, in Azores Islands, I believe it’s very humid, probably mainland Portugal inside it’s dryish. But what kind of materials is to be useful?
Or Sofer: Okay, so so as you said, different areas has different climates, different materials and again, it depends what is the final site.
Let me give you an example. So a few months ago, we were looking at the land that has a very interesting clay. In it. Okay. And it’s allowed to extract this clay and create a building materials from it. So again, it depends. And obviously the material that you find in the land is the best to use.
It depends on the land. In terms of bamboo, bamboo, it has has the power. They have, it has many different species of bamboo and they work in different zones around the world. Bamboo can grow almost anywhere. It doesn’t have a lot of requirements in maintenance and water. And what’s the most interesting in this plant is that it grows super fast.
So from after the fourth year, you will have you can get to up to a meter or 1. 2 meters growth per day. So this is a super sustainable plant. It’s also anti bacterial. You can plant it. You can plant species. It’s bamboo is in everywhere. You can have bamboo in in frozen areas.
Emily Bron: Okay, I didn’t know, thank you.
Or Sofer: Yes. Look at Japan in the winter.
Emily Bron: Okay. I need to go to Japan. Yes. No. I was always thinking how they’re living in this house.
Or Sofer: It’s fantastic material. Yeah. It’s hard and light and strong antibacterial, which is very important.
Emily Bron: Just a little bit isolation against, heavy metal music. I don’t know.
It’s okay. And Zuzana, Back to you. What has been the most challenging so far aspect of advocating for individual freedom for you and your task is, to find and form communities and especially, in a world that often values conformity and leaning to the left worldwide over the last years.
Zuzana Martakova: Yeah, that’s a great question, Emily. I would say we all create our own bubbles and I tend to surround myself with individuals who are on a similar wavelength as I am. So I tend to be surrounded by people who value their freedoms and privacy and security. Like Or said we’re not trying to we’re not fighting anything.
We’re not convincing anyone. We’re paving our own road. And this is the way that we approach our potential residents as well. We’re not necessarily trying to convince anyone in a forceful way, of course, that would very much go against our own beliefs. But just trying to meet people possibly somewhere in the middle, because ultimately, we all almost talking about rational and sane people, of course, we all want very similar things.
It’s just we project them differently, right? But we, especially in the Western world, I think up until probably, 2020, a lot of us have really taken our freedoms for granted and we didn’t really even need to think about them. Again, this is not something that you’re taught at school.
This is not something that, the system wants you really to know and to think about, of course. And most people don’t really stop and think about it, maybe even during their entire lifetime. But again, those that do. Those are the people that we try to approach and try to attract, but again, even the people who don’t quite realize it or who are not quite aware of it, maybe just yet.
This is why we’re present, obviously on social media and we send our messages out there, just trying to tell our story in the most. Digestible way, possibly, or most understandable way, hopefully, in a simple, straightforward way. But yeah, in my personal life, as, as nice as it is to stay open minded and to, subject yourself to differently thinking people it’s also just as nice, if not nicer, to surround yourself with people, again, who are on a similar level as you are, and so those are the people that I tend to surround myself with, and those are the circles where I, move and gravitate towards.
Emily Bron: No, again, it all sounds great, and I’m fully on the same page with you, but to my personal surprise, over the last couple of years I found that not so many people think like me. I was sure it’s okay, especially, in between us who came from the former Soviet Union, from Eastern Bloc. And we understand, we understood what is about earlier than other people who didn’t have the knowledge and experience, but since still people are not ready to leave their places and maybe because they don’t know about options like FreeThem or others, but people very hard to change that comfort zone, and way of thinking.
So it’s opened my eyes and many, aspects of even community I’m living with, because I was assumed if I understand it, then we all came from the same background, read the same books and, listen to the same music and understand the value of media. So the people should, I realize that freedom, actual appreciation of the freedom, it’s only small minority in every society, probably in every time in every century.
And I believe that more and more people are opening their eyes. And I know about freedom and other communities are built in Mexico, for example, there’s a list of different type of communities with slight different ideas like to be open, but people, I understand the need to get out of the society to get to find the independence and, to form the community, the question, how it’s going to work but yes, my revelation that freedom valued by not so many people was shocking for me personally.
That’s why I understand how hard is your task and and what are you doing? How, in what steps, like you’re approaching different people, communities, organizations,
Zuzana Martakova: Yeah, I think it ultimately comes down to do you want freedom or do you want security and of course freedom comes hand in hand with self responsibility and I don’t want to speak on behalf of anyone else.
However, with that said, most people don’t have a very strong sense. of self responsibility. And again, we can argue if that’s, their nation state government or whether that’s the system or whatever else that has programmed them this way. And again, a lot of people outsource their critical thinking.
And so they don’t really stop and think about it. And so they just live on autopilots for again, the majority of their lives. I don’t want to assume, but I’m, this has been at least my experience. Just observing people around me. And again, so it’s freedom versus security, and you cannot necessarily have both at the same time at all times.
We’ve seen this again with the pandemic where people, most people opted for security and lost both. Lost both security and lost their freedoms, big time. And then there’s these people who are looking for these communities. It’s because, the system, it just chews you up in a way. And I see this, even with my family.
It’s, everybody’s complaining about, rising taxes, getting higher food getting more expensive, inflation, blah, blah, blah, what you have. I think we’re all experiencing this regardless of our locations, which are very different, but it’s all very similar, right? Somehow all of these things, especially in the Western world are happening in a very similar way.
Again, whether there’s the UN and their agendas behind it or whatever, maybe that’s a different conversation. Again, But again, you can just get chewed up by it and continue living this, miserable life, or you can get up and start doing something about it. And so this is, these are also the people that we target.
We’ve mentioned plenty of the groups, whether that’s digital nomads that have figured out that they don’t have stuck to a location and they can actually move to a, it doesn’t always have to be a tropical paradise, the sun is nice. We talked about that too. So they have figured out they can go to the other side of the world and get their work done from there.
This is why we target and want to attract. Libertarians, anarcho capitalists, because these are people who do, hopefully, deeply value their own lives and the value the lives of the people around them, and so they act accordingly with that. We target and attract Bitcoiners, because again, that’s a very similar mindset, right?
Of course, there’s always differences, but these are people who do prioritize decentralization, with their money. You with their currency and with their ultimate lifestyle homeschooling families again, because, the system the education that most kids receive is, highly mediocre.
You do not learn any practical skills. practical things. It’s I think we, we all probably have a somewhat similar experience in with our education in these like institutions. And so homeschooling families have figured this out. You take responsibility back into your own hands for yourself and for your family and for your closest ones.
And again, act accordingly.
Emily Bron: Thank you. Thank you. I understand a lot of work ahead. And one of the reason for educating, I would say not educating, but letting people know about such opportunities. It’s my podcast. It’s how I understand I can contribute to this one, at least this year. And I can only ask you the same question I ask Or: how do you envision the future of FreeThem Towns evolving over the next decade, especially considering ambitions to establish 100.
Okay, let’s not to be particular to the number, but additional cities in 10 years. What is your vision?
Zuzana Martakova: My own eyes, the world keeps separating. There are people who are still stuck in the old ways, in the very centralized ways.
And then there is us and many others who are looking to decentralize. Again, just to leave these very outdated and inflexible and skeleton like structures that are not serving our new society and, this new humanity in a way. And however many towns we have within, the following decade.
I hope there are many and I hope there are many more, free cities, intentional communities, regenerative communities, intentional communities, what you have. I hope there are many more because there is big demands. And so of course we need to balance it with our supply. But I see the future.
Very bright, of course. I’m a very positive person, so I tend to look on the bright side always. But yeah, it’s just people separating again from the outdated and dysfunctional structures and finding something new. Just trying something new because obviously this is a very challenging road. It’s, it hasn’t been paved before and we have to pave it ourselves.
And it’s a hundred percent worth it. It’s not easy. There is, there are many challenges and many obstacles. But again, nothing worth having comes easy, right? As the saying goes. And the pioneers have to, you have to, it’s trial. It’s, what do you say? How do you say this?
Emily Bron: Trials and errors.
Zuzana Martakova: Trial. Yeah. Trial and error. Thank you. Something works, something doesn’t, that’s fine. We live and we learn. But yeah, hopefully there will be more of this popping up. And again, the demand is there. It obviously is not going anywhere. It will keep growing because once people wake up they do not fall back asleep.
If so the, and more and more people are waking up, right? It’s getting worse. seeing this and measuring the frequency of the earth that keeps rising. And that’s all of us, with our our awakened state, so to say. So again, once these people wake up, they’re not going back.
And so hopefully maybe. I’m hopeful.
Emily Bron: So am I, and obviously young generation they look differently at what’s going on. They might not have complete understanding and education but they want something else and I understand that as well. And my last question to you how do you envision the global membership?
Working across multiple, several freedom towns. And what benefits do you foresee for residents who wish to travel between these? communities when they will be built.
Zuzana Martakova: The global membership is really important for us. Obviously, it entails having towns in various jurisdictions but ultimately we want to offer the flexibility to people.
And this is also why we utilize the built to rent model, because you don’t have to worry about purchasing or selling anything or getting rid of your furniture or anything like that. It’s if you want to hop between places. Between continents or within one continent between places you have the option to do and we don’t quite have a fine tune to the very last detail, once you have the resident contract signs, you can hop in between. And also it might be helpful in in terms of taxation, because if in general, obviously it’s not applicable to all cases, but if you spend less than a general 180 or six, six months, 180 days in a place you are free from the income tax.
Obviously, again, depends on everything or various factors. But that is the general rule. So we want to be able to offer that option to residents as well. And. Just because we do attract many digital nomads and these remote workers that are used to hopping from place to place.
And these slow mads too, because again, we don’t want to be just a short time stay for someone. We do want to prioritize, or we prioritize people who will stay with us for the longterm obviously, who will actually live there. But again, if they want to experience more and if they want to hop in between places, they, we want to be able to offer that option to them.
Emily Bron: Okay, thank you very much. And I believe we need to stop for today. It’s a lot of questions, but I believe that the just start of the conversation and we will reconvene maybe next year when you will have more information and more locations to share and more amenities. No, not amenities. I believe that additional features will come along the way because it’s a normal process with each startup.
So we’re just starting our conversation and thank you very much for today. Thank you,
Zuzana Martakova: Emily. It’s been a pleasure.
Emily Bron: Thank you for joining us for this enlightening conversation with Orsofer and Zuzanna Martakova from Freedom. It’s been fascinating to hear about the vision for decentralized, self sufficient towns and how they’re turning these ideas into reality.
From Orsofer’s extensive leadership experience. and philosophical inspirations to Zuzana’s dedication to community and individual freedom, we have uncovered some sincerely inspiring insights. into how we can build a freer, more sustainable world. If you are as inspired as I am by their work and want to learn more, visit Freesia’s website and you can find the URL below the interview.
Remember to subscribe to Age of Reinvention to catch an episode every week. Packed with transformative ideas about new ways of living, intentional communities, and practical advice. Until next time, I’m Emily Bron, reminding you that the power to reinvent our lives and world is always within reach. Stay curious, stay informed, and keep exploring new possibilities.
Zuzana Martakova
Decentralized towns, startup cities, yoga & bitcoin
Zuzana Martakova is a versatile professional with expertise spanning decentralized towns, startup cities, yoga, and Bitcoin. With a strong foundation in project management, business strategy, and talent management, she excels in driving organizational growth and culture change. Zuzana’s skills extend to HR consulting, performance management, corporate relocation, and operations management, with a keen focus on team leadership and employee engagement. Passionate about health and wellness, she also incorporates bodywork and coaching into her approach. Zuzana’s diverse skill set makes her a valuable asset for innovative projects aimed at building sustainable, forward-thinking communities.
Or Sofer
Developing self sustainable towns close to nature for individuals, families and organizations. To maximize freedom, prosperity, value for money and balance in life.
Or Sofer is dedicated to creating self-sustainable towns that harmonize with nature, offering individuals, families, and organizations the opportunity to achieve greater freedom, prosperity, and life balance. His visionary approach focuses on designing communities that provide exceptional value for money while promoting a healthier, more fulfilling way of living.
In a rapidly evolving world, the quest for Freedom and sustainable living has become an aspiration for many. A recent episode of the “Age of Reinvention” podcast delved into this idea with none other than Or Sofer, the visionary CEO of FreeThem, and Zuzana Martakova, a passionate advocate for community-centric living. Hosted by Emily Bron, the discussion unravelled groundbreaking ideas on how decentralized, self-sufficient communities can reshape our living options for the future.
A Vision for the Future: The Freedom Initiative
Or Sofer outlined the ethos behind the Freedom initiative, emphasizing the importance of autonomy and individual liberty. The conversation highlighted eco-villages’ impact in steering humanity towards sustainability and Freedom from excessive governmental overreach. What makes FreeThem unique is its ability to marry high-tech solutions with traditional values of community living.
Navigating Challenges and Opportunities
One of the critical challenges discussed is ensuring that the vision for decentralized living aligns with practical realities. Or addressed potential hurdles, such as government regulations and taxation, pledging commitment to establishing communities in legally stable environments that align with their philosophies. The focus on long-term viability also introduces a built-to-rent model to maintain community governance and harmoniously resolve potential conflicts.
Philosophical Foundations: Stoicism and Objectivism
Marcus Aurelius and Ayn Rand’s philosophies have significantly influenced both Or and Zuzana in their community-building efforts. Their works underscore the need for personal responsibility, peace of mind, and a free society—concepts that resonate deeply with the ethos of FreeThem. Zuzana emphasized the importance of community without sacrificing individual rights, reinforcing that a thriving community starts with empowered individuals.’
Community and Individual Freedom: A Balancing Act
Zuzana explored the intricate interplay between individual Freedom and community building. It’s about crafting environments that nurture independence while offering a robust support network. According to her, achieving this balance involves embracing the non-aggression principle and fostering mutual respect among residents.
Innovative Living Solutions
The discussion further explored the technological backbone supporting FreeThem’s future eco-villages. The communities aim to be self-sufficient in water, energy, and food, utilizing rainwater harvesting, hydroponics, and renewable energy sources. These technological advancements promise a sustainable lifestyle while minimizing dependency on external systems.
Looking to the Horizon: Expansion and Growth
The ambition to establish hundreds of Freedom towns globally demonstrates a commitment to making this vision a reality. With a strategic focus on places like Portugal and Texas, these communities promise physical spaces and a new way of life that embraces decentralization and technological advancement.
A Beacon of Hope for the Future
The conversation concluded with optimism about the potential of decentralized communities to transform how we live. As pioneers in this movement, Or and Zuzana are navigating uncharted waters, steadfastly believing in a freer, more sustainable future.
For those inspired by FreeThem’s vision, the journey is just beginning.
Stay connected with updates and explore how you can contribute to this transformative approach to living.
